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Nibelungen
2nd June 2017, 11:03
why not to put in the market a new version of XR1200... for young and propertied guys...

- making her more cool
- making her more powerful
. making her technology up to date (traction control, multiple maps... etc)
- making her wicked
- making her desirable

IMO Mo.Co. is afraid to cannibalize areas covert by other bikes (for example
the "S" series)...

again in my humble opinion the marketing engineers are wrong...
i assure them... in Europe at least... they would sell thousand of them....

felis
16th June 2017, 13:24
How well did they sell there last time?

Most people (including myself), didn't like the looks of it.

I think the new Roadster has a lot of the functional areas covered,
while looking much better.
For those who like the cafe rear section and stuff,
They've made kits and clip on bars and other bits available too.

I think the market for an XR such as you describe would be
very small, at least here n the US, and it probably wouldn't
be on the roster very long.

b0fh
16th June 2017, 13:39
what always made me give up on buying a XR (and boy, did I consider one over the last years) was that plastic tank.

wish my CX roadster had XRX forks. maybe someday :)

Glamazon
16th June 2017, 17:30
They wouldn't want it to take away Roadster sales. Anyone else remember how the hot Ford Falcons vanished when the Mustang took off?

jammantoo
17th June 2017, 22:18
Harley did try with the last XR 12, they were still a bit conservative then.
Now that they are reaching way out, like with the Street project and expanding that, they may try again, but U think the possibility of that is if the newest street version is a success.

my opinion

I can see what is happening, they do not want to upset their base, so they are reaching for a new base. Once established they will move through the current lineup. That way they are going to be offering to a new crowd, the old crowd answered with dismal sales for the last XR.
I think where they can do the best is to punch the street platform to 1200ccs, like the Indian Scout. That way they have the current air cooled line intact, and will answer the new emerging market with a water pumping beast and answer the salvo fired by polaris with a water cooled 1200 that makes serious ponies the XL does not in factory form.

that way they do not upset the status quo. they just expand their emerging market. it seems the streets are moving right along, the biggest friction they are getting is from the faithful. That is a shame that guys who love HD want it to fail. After all if they are successful, they can pour more money into keeping the air cooled lines alive. The EPA is really making it hard to keep an air cooled twin on the market.

sportsterpaul
17th June 2017, 23:30
They wouldn't want it to take away Roadster sales. Anyone else remember how the hot Ford Falcons vanished when the Mustang took off?

Ironic as my first car was a 1964 Ford Falcon Sprint, a very fun package, and within a couple years they were gone as the Mustang dug it's hooves in big time.:frownone

Nibelungen
23rd June 2017, 08:16
We will see... expecially after the potential rumoured acquisition of Ducati....

drgonzo21
15th August 2017, 19:38
Well, they blew it with the XR. It was heavier than a standard Sportster. HEAVIER. The highest performance model should be the lightest of the breed. A lot about the XR12 was right but it was still an overweight pig.
Just make a genuinely fast Sportster that still looks like a Sportster. Make it very spartan and powerful. Give it good suspenstion and ground clearance. Let the engine dominate the looks.

drgonzo21
15th August 2017, 19:40
Harley did try with the last XR 12, they were still a bit conservative then.
Now that they are reaching way out, like with the Street project and expanding that, they may try again, but U think the possibility of that is if the newest street version is a success.

my opinion

I can see what is happening, they do not want to upset their base, so they are reaching for a new base. Once established they will move through the current lineup. That way they are going to be offering to a new crowd, the old crowd answered with dismal sales for the last XR.
I think where they can do the best is to punch the street platform to 1200ccs, like the Indian Scout. That way they have the current air cooled line intact, and will answer the new emerging market with a water pumping beast and answer the salvo fired by polaris with a water cooled 1200 that makes serious ponies the XL does not in factory form.

that way they do not upset the status quo. they just expand their emerging market. it seems the streets are moving right along, the biggest friction they are getting is from the faithful. That is a shame that guys who love HD want it to fail. After all if they are successful, they can pour more money into keeping the air cooled lines alive. The EPA is really making it hard to keep an air cooled twin on the market.
When it comes to the street line, they need to make a street tracker 900cc version. A 900cc production based engine is legal in AMA Flat Track. It would give them a chance to be competitive and finally offer a street tracker from the company that is the poster child for flat track.

drgonzo21
15th August 2017, 19:43
They wouldn't want it to take away Roadster sales. Anyone else remember how the hot Ford Falcons vanished when the Mustang took off?
Yes, and how was that bad for Ford?

Glamazon
15th August 2017, 21:23
Bad enough that folk were buying tyre burner versions of the Dodge Dart & Chevy Nova

drgonzo21
15th August 2017, 22:08
Bad enough that folk were buying tyre burner versions of the Dodge Dart & Chevy Nova
The point is the new model (Mustang) outsold the Falcon 100 fold and that was a great thing for FoMoCo just like it would be great if the street line outsold everything in Harleys line up. They are there to sell motorcycles and make money.

rejeanprimeau
15th August 2017, 23:25
why not to put in the market a new version of XR1200... for young and propertied guys...

- making her more cool
- making her more powerful
. making her technology up to date (traction control, multiple maps... etc)
- making her wicked
- making her desirable

IMO Mo.Co. is afraid to cannibalize areas covert by other bikes (for example
the "S" series)...

again in my humble opinion the marketing engineers are wrong...
i assure them... in Europe at least... they would sell thousand of them....

Eric Bull must read that post. :doh

shanneba
15th August 2017, 23:44
Technology???

4 valves per cylinder
Variable valve timing
variable valve lift
knock sensors with the ability of adjust ignition timing based on the octane of the fuel.
Maybe even twin spark plugs (at least they could double sales of SE Plugs)
gear driven primary
variable length intake.

That should confuse all the tuners for a long time :)

Hippysmack
16th August 2017, 00:51
Yes, and how was that bad for Ford?

I think the message was that is was bad for the Falcon. I used to own one. Fun little car. Points ignition sucked though.

Will1250
16th August 2017, 13:19
The Falcon survived in Australia; at least until this year.

Haegar
16th August 2017, 14:55
Well, they blew it with the XR. It was heavier than a standard Sportster. HEAVIER. The highest performance model should be the lightest of the breed. A lot about the XR12 was right but it was still an overweight pig.
Just make a genuinely fast Sportster that still looks like a Sportster. Make it very spartan and powerful. Give it good suspenstion and ground clearance. Let the engine dominate the looks.

You have nearly 100% of my thougts when I decided to drive again a "fast" Sportster. The XR1200 and also the rubbermount Sportster are much to fat. So I took a used 2002 883R and build my own XL-R. After "some" modifications it runs 200+KM/h with it's measured 85hp engine, has more ground clearance than most of modern naked bikes, very good brakes , suspension and weigts just 205kg. Over 50kg less than a XR1200! It is not my first SPORT ster. In 1988 I build nearly the same with a Ducati Imola Gastank. See 2. picture

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170816/temp/d9iy9wjk.jpg (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4816/d9iy9wjk_jpg.htm)

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170816/temp/kzvxl67t.jpg (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4816/kzvxl67t_jpg.htm)

drgonzo21
16th August 2017, 14:56
I think the message was that is was bad for the Falcon. I used to own one. Fun little car. Points ignition sucked though.
The Motor Co, just like FoMoCo, exists to make money, not to preserve models.

drgonzo21
16th August 2017, 15:05
You have nearly 100% of my thougts when I decided to drive again a "fast" Sportster. The XR1200 and also the rubbermount Sportster are much to fat. So I took a used 2002 883R and build my own XL-R. After "some" modifications it runs 200+KM/h with it's measured 85hp engine, has more ground clearance than most of modern naked bikes, very good brakes , suspension and weigts just 205kg. Over 50kg less than a XR1200! It is not my first SPORT ster. In 1988 I build nearly the same with a Ducati Imola Gastank. See 2. picture

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170816/temp/d9iy9wjk.jpg (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4816/d9iy9wjk_jpg.htm)

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170816/temp/kzvxl67t.jpg (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4816/kzvxl67t_jpg.htm)

Two awesome bikes man! Great job on both of them.

Sleeper
16th August 2017, 21:39
I demo'ed the XR1200 when they were introduced and liked it.
It wasn't that any one thing kept me from buying one. It was a combination of some of the smaller stuff that put me off.

I actually don't mind plastic or fiberglass parts generally speaking but aren't they suppose to reduce weight? Can you image what it would've weighed with a metal tank and fenders? It was and probably still is one of the heaviest Sportsters ever made.
How does that equate to better performance?
Sure some of the upgraded components like better brakes, suspension, a beefier swingarm and oil cooler might have added weight but come on. It was still a porker.

They could've done a better job of making the tank and fenders a little more aesthetically pleasing too.

And then there was the price tag. It isn't that it wasn't affordable. The bottom line was it just wasn't a very good value when compared to some of the other standards in its price range.

Now if a used one came around at the right price, maybe.

A new XR?
I can't see the MoCo putting a whole lot of money into the Sportster line up unfortunately.
That's not where their bread is buttered.

I do think they did a good job with the new Roadster though.