PDA

View Full Version : Oil filters


Gone
10th October 2006, 14:24
Where can I find the oil filter cross reference chart? Thanks!

cadiero
10th October 2006, 14:42
I don't know that there is one. What are you looking for specifically?

DarkStar883
10th October 2006, 14:47
http://www.sportster.org/tech/oil_filter_cross_reference.html

chrishajer
10th October 2006, 15:35
I didn't know you could get a Briggs & Stratton oil filter for your Harley-Davidson :)

--Chris

Gone
11th October 2006, 01:57
Thanks! That's what I was looking for.

opiate9680
5th March 2007, 03:53
Anyone have any experience with these oil filters on the cross reference chart? If so which are the cheapest or the best? I've heard the NAPA ones are good and cheaper than the OEM HD oil filters, any truth to that?

XLXR
5th March 2007, 04:03
www.perf-form.com is not listed, and the Amsoil part numbers are obsolete because they have changed their filter design with a new filter media.

opiate9680
6th March 2007, 03:27
Ok, well that's something to think about. Anyone actually tried any of these replacement oil filters in the cross reference chart?

wildwill8
6th March 2007, 03:35
I use this on being using it for few year

Fram PH6065A Yes Chrome

sspeer
6th March 2007, 03:46
I think you want a filter made specifically for motorcycles..something with not enough pressure to open the bypass

I think Sporties seem to be especially sensitive as Harley doesn't recommend their premium filter

The HD filters are reasonably priced compared to other MC specific filters

Gary7
6th March 2007, 04:00
I think you want a filter made specifically for motorcycles..something with not enough pressure to open the bypass

I think Sporties seem to be especially sensitive as Harley doesn't recommend their premium filter

The HD filters are reasonably priced compared to other MC specific filters

The important thing to do when attempting a true cross reference is to make sure the bypass opening differential pressure is the same as the HD specified filter. Just because a filter will screw on doesn't mean it will function properly.

I'm using the SuperTech ST3614 filter on my bike. It has the same bypass specs as the HD filter and it, like the HD filter, is made by Champion.

sspeer
6th March 2007, 04:07
Good to know about the Supertech. I've heard good things about them for cars.

So do all those in the cross ref have the HD bypass spec?

Right now I'm using a Wix..NAPA lists it in their MC catalog..I was feeling crazy. I painted it with the BBQ paint since I didn't want to give them any free advertisement...does everyone else do this?

I also see that there are 3 part numbers on the Wix/NAPA (2 are the same filter, just the color)..and the specs online are the same, both are shown as 'Gold'..so what's the diff? Similar with the Purolator and such..It's these questions that make me a little cautious

Gary7
6th March 2007, 04:11
Right now I'm using the Wix..NAPA lists it as a MC filter..

I painted it with the BBQ paint since I didn't want to give them any free advertisement...does everyone else do this?

The SuperTech filters are black, so I just peel off the SuperTech sticker and it looks like a stock HD black filter. :D

sspeer
6th March 2007, 04:23
The SuperTech filters are black, so I just peel off the SuperTech sticker and it looks like a stock HD black filter. :D

I've been doing some googling about the 3614. I saw a post in another forum with a note from Champion Labs stating it meets HD spec!

Could be interesting to tear a 3614 and an HD apart to compare

Snuffy
6th March 2007, 13:01
Read somewhere here on this. On filters its not that others will screw on and be pretty its the microns in the filtering that has all to do with wether the filter is working correctly or not. There was a big discussion on that and can't remember where here on the forum.

Gary7
6th March 2007, 13:11
I've been doing some googling about the 3614. I saw a post in another forum with a note from Champion Labs stating it meets HD spec!

Could be interesting to tear a 3614 and an HD apart to compare

You would see that the ST3614 is a totally different design. The stock HD filter is a conventional design, while the ST3614 is Champion's new "E-Core" design. The filter element of an E-Core is more like that of a cartridge type filter (http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444876982 1&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302290363&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302290363&bmUID=1173185126874&bmLocale=en_US), in that the center tube is a nylon cage rather than a metal tube. Flow is much better, IMO, and thus the filter spends less time in bypass mode.

Here's a diagram of the E-Core from the Champion web site:

http://www.champlabs.com/products/oilfilters.gif

yorgo
6th March 2007, 13:12
Try this site
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html

Wizzard Of Odds
12th March 2007, 01:03
http://www.sportster.org/tech/oil_filter_cross_reference.html


I don't know man, the list has an automotive filter under K&N brand, and doesn't have the K&N part number that is made for Sportster evos.

sportysrock
12th March 2007, 03:23
Follow this link
Nanofiber Motorcycle Oil Filter Technology (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaom.aspx?zo=1267106)

or
Nanofiber Motorcycle Air Filter Technology (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eaam.aspx?zo=1267106)

To The current AMSOIL Power Sports & Motorcycle Filter Lookup Application.

Xldevil
25th March 2007, 10:04
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html

Xldevil
25th March 2007, 10:06
The important thing to do when attempting a true cross reference is to make sure the bypass opening differential pressure is the same as the HD specified filter. Just because a filter will screw on doesn't mean it will function properly.

I'm using the SuperTech ST3614 filter on my bike. It has the same bypass specs as the HD filter and it, like the HD filter, is made by Champion.

"Filter Bypass and Anti-Drain Back Valves
Filters also have relief or bypass valves. These valves are set to trigger if the filter element is making too large a pressure drop. Normally, this would be because it is clogged, however on an engine with a very high flow oil pump this can also happen if the oil is very cold. Motorcycles do not have high- flow oil pumps. These relief valves are set for different pressures, and sometimes a tech or mechanic will tell you that it's important that the relief valve have the correct rating. It's not. These valves are very low-precision devices, and their pop- off values are different from each other even in identical filters of the same brand. I have spoken with engineers (not techs) at AMS, Purolator, Mobil, and Champion, and not one of them knows of a single reason why you can't use a car filter on a motorcycle. In fact, not one of them could quote me a single pop-off valve pressure rating off the tops of their heads. They did not consider this an interesting or important topic until I brought it up. When the relief valve is open, the oil is going around the filter element and not being filtered at all. If your relief valve ever opens up you're either using a really cheap oil on a really cold day, or you haven't changed your oil filter since the last time you saw Robert E. Lee. Because filters can clog up and saturate with junk, your oil filter should be changed about every 5,000 miles. In fact, if you are using an advanced synthetic oil, you should probably change your oil filter about twice as often as you change your oil. "

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html

XLXR
25th March 2007, 19:02
I mostly agree with what XLdevil is saying. However, I would ask the engineers if they have actually measured the bypass pressure of Harley stock filters and actually tested various filters on HD motors. Just because 99% of all other applications work with various bypass pressures, doesn't mean Harley motors will. The worst case would be to get a bypass pressure that is too low and the valve is always open and not much of the oil is filtered. Problem is, you'll never know until it is too late.

If your engine is already gunked up from using dino oil, and then change to PAO synthetic, then it is important to change filters more often for the first 3 or 4 cycles because PAO based synthetics clean out the sludge and that can clog a filter sooner than expected. If you have been using PAO based synthetic since after initial break in, there won't be sludge build up and filters will actually last longer. If I remember correctly, Amsoil now recommends oil and filter changes up to twice OEM recommendations for Harley motors.

racerwill
25th March 2007, 19:11
very good reference chart........

thank you

Ww

Gary7
25th March 2007, 19:39
If your engine is already gunked up from using dino oil, and then change to PAO synthetic, then it is important to change filters more often for the first 3 or 4 cycles because PAO based synthetics clean out the sludge and that can clog a filter sooner than expected.

This is absolutely incorrect. PAO itself has virtually no solubility, which is what would be needed to effect any sort of cleansing action. Any detergent capability of a PAO based motor oil will come from the additive package as well as any sythetic esters that are used in addition to the PAO in the base oil blend.

XLXR
25th March 2007, 19:40
I found a chart in the service manual that states oil pressure is 7-17 psi. I don't know how that compares to other bikes or car engines, but seems to be on the low side. The question I don't have an answer to, is what happens when you use a filter designed for 30 to 60 psi? Isn't 30 60 psi still common in automotive applications? I haven't had a oil pressure gauage in a car for so long, I can't remember what the pressures are.

XLXR
25th March 2007, 20:06
Gary7 - now we are really splitting hairs. Since the oil makers don't tell us what's in the oil, how are we supposed to figure out if the base stock or additive package is causing the cleaning action. It doesn't make any difference if the result is the same.

Gary7
25th March 2007, 21:22
Gary7 - now we are really splitting hairs. Since the oil makers don't tell us what's in the oil, how are we supposed to figure out if the base stock or additive package is causing the cleaning action. It doesn't make any difference if the result is the same.

Not splitting hairs at all. Your statement was inaccurate, pure and simple.

By and large the detergent/dispersant additives in motor oil are there to keep an engine clean by preventing the formation of sludge and deposits. They have very little ability to clean an engine that has been neglected and has sludge/deposit issues. The only oil that will do that to some extent is Redline, and that's because over half the base oil blend is comprised of polyol esters which are highly polar and given enough time will work on the sludge. But even Redline won't "de-sludge" an engine.

Gone
25th March 2007, 21:34
The filter designed for higher pressures just means the bypass may open a bit later. None of these filters is going to have bypass springs so strong oil will not get through with a clogged filter or running straight 50 wt. at 0 deg. The reason the pressure is low is because Sportsters and big-twins use roller bearings.

XLXR
25th March 2007, 21:58
I have no experience with Red Line. My statement is accurate and based on my experience with Amsoil, which is PAO based. I will assume your statement is based on other oils, not Amsoil.

Gary7
25th March 2007, 22:10
I have no experience with Red Line. My statement is accurate and based on my experience with Amsoil, which is PAO based.

Yeah, whatever... :rolleyes:

Gone
26th March 2007, 04:58
Even immersing parts in solvent tanks for days won't easily de-sludge them once the junk has baked on for months or years, without a lot of firm brush scrubbing (or hot-tanking). Anyone severely neglecting their engines to that point are not likely to be purusing this or any other oil/filter threads. Most rat-bike riders can't read or write..........

towlie
26th March 2007, 05:32
Yeah, umm good reference chart, been using the Bosch for a while.

XLXR
26th March 2007, 13:49
www.heavydutycycles.com Click on Sportster tecq and read the sections on oils and filters.

Sludge and varnish are two different things. Stick your finger in any old car engine that has had too few changes of dino oil, that gunk is sludge. Varnish is the coating you have to scrub off. You can see it on dip sticks. Every auto parts store has many products that claim to disolve and flush them out of the motor, and right into the filter.

Gary7
26th March 2007, 16:20
www.heavydutycycles.com Click on Sportster tecq and read the sections on oils and filters.

Sludge and varnish are two different things. Stick your finger in any old car engine that has had too few changes of dino oil, that gunk is sludge. Varnish is the coating you have to scrub off. You can see it on dip sticks. Every auto parts store has many products that claim to disolve and flush them out of the motor, and right into the filter.

You just keep confirming that you have ZERO real world experience dealing with sludged up engines. :rolleyes:

XLXR
27th March 2007, 05:20
Please support your statements. If I am wrong, I am willing to listen to reasonalble explanations. But so far you haven't offered any.

It is rare to find any high mileage motor that used dino oil without sludge that was easily cleaned off and varnish, tarnish, or whatever you want to call it, that was rather difficult to clean off. Today's dino oils are better than 30 years ago, but two years ago I saw one particular car with only 30 thousand miles with quite a bit of sludge due to owner neglect.