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USMC_Davii
1st November 2006, 16:51
Dear Harley Davidson,

Currently military members are required to wear an awful lot of safety gear in order to enjoy their Harley's aboard a D.O.D. installation. While the regulations differ slightly from base to base, there are a few common elements to almost all of them.

#1 - Long sleeves
#2 - Long pants
#3 - Over the ankle boots
#4 - Full fingered gloves
#5 - DOT Helmet
#6 - Bright colors during daylight hours
#7 - Reflective material at night

Now, #6 and #7 is where the problem lies, I KNOW Harley Davidson can help in this matter. As the regs currently are I have to wear a construction worker reflective vest every time I ride my bike to and from base. Although I don't mind the safety aspect of such attire I hate the fact that I look like a construction worker. This bright orange reflective vest not only looks ridiculous it is at best another layer of crap to put on and take off every time I move my bike five feet.

Harley currently offers a black and grey reflective vest which although it meets the nighttime requirements of reflective material does nothing for the daytime requirements. This vest is also about to become obsolete for DOD purposes because the Marine Corps is releasing a new order that specifically outlaws black reflective vests.

Please make a long sleeved jacket with ventilation, Harley orange and grey in the chest area, and at least two inches of reflective material on the front and back, and reflective piping on the sleeves.

PLEASE! There are already similar products offered by your competitors, ICON makes a MIL-Spec vest that is perfectly suited for this task, but NOBODY makes a full fledged jacket! Something to be worn year round, hot or cold.

http://www.yyrband.com/icon.jpg Similar to this, but not so damned crotch rockety, with sleeves, and ventilation.

klinesamuel
1st November 2006, 22:37
I rode for years with the HD zip up black mesh vest with the silver reflective bands. I really loved that thing and when I retired I souvenired it to a buddy of mine.
Have you ever seen the reflective yellow belts that goes across your body from your shoulder to your opposite waist side. I used one of these when I did my early morning runs. Maybe you could wear one of those instead of a vest.
Don't forget to keep your headlight on even during the day.

Sam

USMC_Davii
1st November 2006, 22:40
I rode for years with the HD zip up black mesh vest with the silver reflective bands. I really loved that thing and when I retired I souvenired it to a buddy of mine.
Have you ever seen the reflective yellow belts that goes across your body from your shoulder to your opposite waist side. I used one of these when I did my early morning runs. Maybe you could wear one of those instead of a vest.
Don't forget to keep your headlight on even during the day.

Sam

Hey Sam , thanks for the suggestion. I tried the reflective belt, same problem, good enough for nighttime, but not for daytime.

As of now the vest is the only solution for both. Silly gate guards. I carry a copy of the order in my fork bag just to show them they are wrong. I get stopped at night all the time, with them saying I need to put on an orange vest.

Sean
1st November 2006, 22:50
I recently ditched the construction worker thingie and got this vest, and so far really like it. I had the wife sew a big ol' Harley patch on the back so now it's officially cool and stylish!:banana

klinesamuel
1st November 2006, 23:33
Hey Sam , thanks for the suggestion. I tried the reflective belt, same problem, good enough for nighttime, but not for daytime.

As of now the vest is the only solution for both. Silly gate guards. I carry a copy of the order in my fork bag just to show them they are wrong. I get stopped at night all the time, with them saying I need to put on an orange vest.

Sorry I couldn't help but you can always do what I did before I got the cool vest. Once off post/base I took the dam thing off.
Before I forget THANK YOU for your service and also the service of your friend the lcpl that you have memorialized.

Sam

V-10
2nd November 2006, 00:23
Once off post/base I took the dam thing off.
Sam

IF the reg hasn't changed.. and you go down without your gear(reflective belt/vest), SGLI will not get paid, regardless of circumstances. Saw it happen the week before I seperated in '03. SSgt was hit head on by oncoming traffic in his lane 2 miles from the gate. His wife received NO benefits. I know the vest's and belts suck, but just think about your S/O before you take it off...

Your service is greatly appreciated

Shawn

kjwrad
2nd November 2006, 00:49
Yea, for years we in the active guard (AGR)have gotten away with not having to do the full safety thing since we don't (most of us) work on true "bases". I always did all the above except the reflectvie and highly visible stuff on my own anyway, cause it just made sense to me. Now the the guard is adopting the full reg just like active duty. I was active for ten years and adheared to all then, so as much as it gripes me I'll do it again. If you come across the jacket you are looking for let me know. Have you heard of "illuminite" products? Not sure if their stuff would be durable enough for the bike. It's mainly for runners and bicylist. Just a suggestion.

klinesamuel
2nd November 2006, 02:15
IF the reg hasn't changed.. and you go down without your gear(reflective belt/vest), SGLI will not get paid, regardless of circumstances. Saw it happen the week before I seperated in '03. SSgt was hit head on by oncoming traffic in his lane 2 miles from the gate. His wife received NO benefits. I know the vest's and belts suck, but just think about your S/O before you take it off...

Your service is greatly appreciated

Shawn

Shawn,
Thank you for the comments I really didn't think of the insurance side of things. I was one of those guys who thought he was bullet proof and I never even thought about life insurance.
So I rescind my last statement and say do what you can to stay within regulation while making your own styling statement.
Remember there are more important things then being perceived as being cool. You are cool because you wear that uniform. Hooah! (I was Army I don't know what Marines would say)

Sam :banadanc

jdb
3rd November 2006, 01:05
I'm with ya. Same BS here at Fort Irwin. The joke is soon we'll have to wear yellow whoopy lights on our helmets. The whole military is hyper-sensative about motorcycles right now. Seems a lot of guys are coming back from deployment and running right out and buying crotch-rockets, which they promptly crash and hurt/kill themselves. So although the problem is with a small group trying to ride bikes that are beyond their ability level, everyone is punished.

But you can't change regulations, so you just have to deal. It would be really cool if Harley would make an alternative to the road guard vest and the Icon vest.

Confused89
3rd November 2006, 01:29
I hope this can help you out. I hope the orange and black one can help you out. It is a nylon jacket not a leather one.
http://www.easyriders.com/detail.aspx?category=8&subcategory=33&id=2759
I currently own an orange and black one, when it gets down to mid 50's I wear and extra shirt under it. I looked into a jacket with a reflective strip on it because I noticed that when I rode behind other bikes at night I could not see the rider. The reflective strip is about 1/4" wide and it runs up both arms and down the sides where the arms would be if you let them down at your sides. The orange is very visable. I don't know if it wil meet your "specs" but I hope this little bit of information will help you.

Edster
3rd November 2006, 01:52
I bought a Jacket w/ vents and armor, it's the Harely tri-color schem but the color stripes are way too thin so I wear my Icon vest over it everywhere I go. I thought of sewing on some reflective tape(non-adhesive textile) and maybe some orange reflective tape ( I think they both have an NSN:p ). The problem is getting someone to sew it on w/o charging an arm and a leg. If I find the NSN I can PM those interested.

GOTWA
3rd November 2006, 02:01
SGLI can only refuse to pay for a direct violation of a law or regulation. If the base regulation says you must wear such and such gear while on base, and there are no comparable laws for off base then they have to pay. If the base regulation, or higher reg stipulates you must wear said gear whenever operating a motorcycle then yes they can deny it.

And they absolutely will. I too saw it happen with a guy who was passed out in the back seat of a car. He called a buddy for a ride home, sober driver but they got into an accident anyway. Kid in back was killed and his wife and baby got nada because he wasn't seat belted.

Great suggestion for the HD gear. Hope they are listening because it really is a needed item.

V-10
3rd November 2006, 02:10
Sam,
I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus...I used to be THE worst...
I'd stop at the gate shack and dump my gear..helmet and all. Sometimes left it at the gate shack depending upon who was working :shhhh . I just picked your statement because that was the attitude a lot of GI's have, and I still hear it frequently from reserve troops around here. Just want our guys to think about the loose strings they risk leaving behind.

Shawn

skratch
3rd November 2006, 02:22
the dod regualtion pertains to all active duty military whether on post or off. however, they cannot deny you an insurance claim if you were not wearing the appropriate gear and it had nothing to do with you getting into an accident. for example, someone turns left in front of you at an intersection, you weren't wearing your gloves, you get killed. they cannot deny your sgli because of that, however, if you survived, they could make you pay the medical for repair of your hands......

Edster
3rd November 2006, 02:57
Sorry about the mis-information. the reflective tape w/ the NSN does have adhesive. I'm sure one of the safet companies out there has Textile reflective tape.

klinesamuel
3rd November 2006, 15:53
Sam,
I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus...I used to be THE worst...
I'd stop at the gate shack and dump my gear..helmet and all. Sometimes left it at the gate shack depending upon who was working :shhhh . I just picked your statement because that was the attitude a lot of GI's have, and I still hear it frequently from reserve troops around here. Just want our guys to think about the loose strings they risk leaving behind.

Shawn

Shawn I didn't think twice about it. When your right your right!
At least I drove past the gate and hung a right before I dumped my "safety" vest. Ha!
Sam

Gone
6th November 2006, 11:19
On ebay, search for reflective fabric. About a dollar per foot.

Uncledaddy
6th November 2006, 11:43
...however, if you survived, they could make you pay the medical for repair of your hands......

That's not entirely true. I was told by an ADC that a line of duty determination cannot force you to repay hospital bills.

Here is my situation, although I may have been an exception.

Crashed my bike drunk while on leave. No helmet or any PPE, no safety course or military paperwork saying I could ride (I had an endorsement on my license), did not state on my pre-departure paperwork that I would be on a motorcycle at any time.
I spent 3 months on con-leave which included at least a half dozen hospital visits.
They threatened the hospital bill repayment and an extension of service time but nothing ever happened, even after my line of duty came up against me.

That was two years ago. Now I wear everything all the time, including my MSF reflective vest.

Like I said, I am probably an exception but... I believe that alot of the scare tactics they use are just myths. I'm not doubting the SGLI stories though.

skratch
7th November 2006, 01:58
That's not entirely true. I was told by an ADC that a line of duty determination cannot force you to repay hospital bills.

Here is my situation, although I may have been an exception.

Crashed my bike drunk while on leave. No helmet or any PPE, no safety course or military paperwork saying I could ride (I had an endorsement on my license), did not state on my pre-departure paperwork that I would be on a motorcycle at any time.
I spent 3 months on con-leave which included at least a half dozen hospital visits.
They threatened the hospital bill repayment and an extension of service time but nothing ever happened, even after my line of duty came up against me.

That was two years ago. Now I wear everything all the time, including my MSF reflective vest.

Like I said, I am probably an exception but... I believe that alot of the scare tactics they use are just myths. I'm not doubting the SGLI stories though.

congrats, you probably were the exception. i agree that a lot of the stuff they tell you is probably scare tactics. have you ever read your sgli policy? what? you don't have a policy to read? guess what? neither do i. in fact, nobody i know has one. i guess a good lawyer could do something with that if they were to deny someone an sgli claim. but, on the other hand, do i want that lawyer to be paid by my wife? no, i don't think so.

its easier to just wear the stuff than to take the chance.

USMC_Davii
7th November 2006, 16:28
Denying SGLI claims is extremely rare. For the most part the last thing the government needs is a grieving wife/mother to take that to the media. It does happen though.

The policy states that all required safety gear must be worn at all times. It does not specify on or off base, at all times.

I'm not worried about the style as much as I am the safety, and wear my appropriate safety gear whenever I get on the bike. However, it does annoy me to look like a construction worker.

Another problem with this, whenever they change the threatcon levels we are at times told not to wear our uniforms off base at all. We're not allowed to go eat or anything like that in cammies anyway (seems the other services are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to in cammies?!). They will tell us to change at work or something along those lines so that you don't stick out like a sore thumb in the community. But then we have to wear these damn vests on the bike that make it obvious to anyone with any kind of situational awareness that you're military and headed to the base.

It just doesn't make sense to me sometimes.

Come on Harley, make us something good!

thescreenman
7th November 2006, 16:54
That is one funky vest .If I was You pick up a nice leather vest cut off some two inch strips on that thing and sew it on the bottom back and one on each side.Up here in NY we have to wear reflective helmets same thing Two inch strip one on thr right one on the left.As long as the law just says wear it and it does not say a size of it i see no problem.I worked with a guy rollie at Harley in Brooklyn He use to wear his helmet at his elbow,We have a helmet law but it dont say it has to be worn on your head it just says it has to be worn.He got away with alot of laughs from cops but won the tickets he got.

USMC_Davii
7th November 2006, 17:29
That is one funky vest .If I was You pick up a nice leather vest cut off some two inch strips on that thing and sew it on the bottom back and one on each side.Up here in NY we have to wear reflective helmets same thing Two inch strip one on thr right one on the left.As long as the law just says wear it and it does not say a size of it i see no problem.I worked with a guy rollie at Harley in Brooklyn He use to wear his helmet at his elbow,We have a helmet law but it dont say it has to be worn on your head it just says it has to be worn.He got away with alot of laughs from cops but won the tickets he got.

That would work great, except for the "bright color" requirement. Thanks for the suggestion.

jalldredge
7th November 2006, 18:09
I have heard all of the BS about motorcyclist wearing safety gear since 1970 or so. Be advised that most of the these regs are created by folks (read brass) that are trying to save all of the unwarrented deaths, injuries, loss of training time and manning strength, as well as manipulate statistics so when questioned by higher headquarters, DOD, Congress or whoever They look good or at least on top of things. They do not care about anything else because they do not ride. A little off the main subject here, but Camp Pendleton in 1975 would not allow a vehicle on base that the back raised via usage of shackles or air shocks. This was challenged when several field grade officers in their Jeep Wagoneers and travell trailers were prohibited entry by the gate guards. I haven't been to Pendleton in a good while. But wherever you are stationed there will be a base order dealing with motorcycle safety. I strongly encourage you to read it. Don't let anyone tell you what it says. Read it. A good example was a Camp Lejeune. Marines on the gates would not let any motorcyclist on base unless an orange reflective vest was worn and battened down so that it wouldn't flop in the wind. Reading the base order revealed that the appearl didn't have to be orange, or even a vest. Several colors of "outer clothing" were Identified as acceptable. These included: neon orflorescent orange, neon or florescent yellow, neon orflorescent green, and neon or florescent pink. The outer clothing could be a vest, jacket, or longsleeve shirt as long as so many square inches of it were visable front and rear while riding Armed with this knowledge I rode my '95FXSTC to the main gate. The Young MP wasn't about to allow me on base. I showed him the order, with appropriate info high-lighted. Being a good Marine he called his boss. I kept my position at the kiosk until the flashing blues came up. The young SSgt called for the Provost Marshal. In short order a major appeared, walked over to the kiosk, told me to move my bike behind the kiosk, and shut it down. I, being on leave and in civvies, did so. He was polite and asked to see the order. His response was unique. "Damn, I never read this." To which the MP's parroted they hadn't either. While the lime green jacket clashed with the Liberty red softail, I was instructed to putt-on. That order was only two years old, yet the "enforcers" simply had never read it!
As to SGLI not paying off, or having to pick up the medical expenses, all it take is a few phone calls to the appropriate Senator or Congessman and to a very good lawyer. As a service member you are limited as far as lawsuites and the government, but your family isn't. I have seen it both ways. one young Corporal's wife just walked away with nothing while a LCpl's well-to-do parents were able to get everything.
read the regs
Semper Fi
master guns

JD/Batman
10th November 2006, 17:45
I saw some Joe Rocket "US Army" branded jackets this weekend. They're fairly cool looking, but they have reflective strips and panels that pull out to make ya legal, but can be rolled up into their little hidey holes for when you're just hanging out. When I was in we wore crappy little vests that wadded up and fit under the seat as soon as we left post, but that was back in the 80's & 90's.
Later.....

JD/Batman
12th November 2006, 04:00
Here is a page with the jacket I was referring to...http://www.newenough.com/powertrip_us_army_camo_alpha_jacket_page.htm

skratch
15th November 2006, 20:34
well, some may like that, but it aint for me. i don't like having big (really big) logos on my back, and that star just looks like a bullseye to me. personally, when i'm off duty (esp riding) i don't want everyone to know that i'm army. some areas around here that would just be inviting trouble.

JD/Batman
15th November 2006, 21:12
I hear ya, but the part I thought had potential was the hideaway reflective panels. You might contact Joe Rocket and see if they offer that in another jacket.
Later.....

SlingBlade
15th November 2006, 22:28
Get the cheapest vest that will satisfy the bastards. In my case because its cheap it will also fold real easy (PAPER THIN) thus when you change right after entry or exit of base its makes for less of a hassle to deal with and easy storage. Its all BS anyway.

OWOF

AZbiker
5th December 2006, 06:47
I'm pretty sure the Aerostich Darien jacket in Hi-Viz yellow would qualify.

http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/index.html

Gone
5th December 2006, 16:48
I was thinking of mounting one of those yellow rotating beacons on my helmet. That should solve alot of problems.

At Dyess AFB we got gate guards that never read the reg's too. They just go by word of mouth as to what is legal or not.

What's funny is years ago we had no motorcycle wrecks so the base did away with the motorcycle safety course. Then someone gets killed and they are jumping throught the hoops to get eveybody throught it.

Just like the military to pay someone to get out the service and the next year they pay someone to get back in that same AFSC :doh

cypher
27th December 2006, 06:23
I read the regs and I thought it said bright, contrasting material (not necessarily orange or yellow). One of the instructors (at the base) stated that he was fighting for just wearing the black leather jackets because they are the best protectors in an accident (albeit hot in the summer).

Anyway, I had to attend a mandatory motorcycle briefing at the base (due to a rash of accidents) and they asked you to bring whatever you wear to see if it was "approvable." I have a jogger's vest and it was approved. It's in a "V" shape (smaller at the waist) and is light gray with reflective tape on the front and back. The only problem with the vest is I have to pin it down to keep it from "pulling" up with the wind. I'm in Illinois (and a civilian).

addertooth
13th February 2007, 23:46
Military + Harley = Alpha personality type
No alpha likes to look like Steve Erkle

The military is very "concerned" for our safety, nevermind the fact we had to make our own armor for our humvees when we went to Iraq.
As a National Guardsman and a civilian contractor that works on an Army base, I find these rules excessive. On our base they require us to take a "motorcycle foundation course" (out of our pockets, non-reembursed) to operate a motorcycle, as well as all the previously listed requirements. They don't care how many years you have held a motorcycle liscence, or how many accident-free miles you have.

It is all part of an overall bias against bikers and the military. My guess is some big bad biker dated a general's daughter, and the general got his panties in a twist.

Our base also has "focus on motorcycle safety" week. It means you get hassled EVERYTIME you go through the gates, and have to do a full show-down on documentation. (liscence, MSF card, registration, safety gear). For some reason there never is a "focus on CAR safety" week.

I must admit I am tired of paying the price for a few stupid wheelie riding crotch rocket fools who kill themselves.

Well, enough of ranting, I have needed to get that off my chest for a while. Addertooth

Gone
21st March 2007, 18:52
This should cover all military personnel.

AR 385-55 reads that military operators of privately owned motorcycles or mopeds, regardless of engine size, will successfully complete an approved Motorcycle Safety Foundation Course. Must have two mirrors, one on each side. Headlights on at all times.
Personnel are required to wear protective equipment ( long-sleeved shirt or jacket,full finger gloves, highly visability garmets-bright color for day and retroflective for night, leather boots or over the ankle shoes) that must be worn on and off post. Too much to list just Google AR 385-55.


SFC Bond

bmcdonau
21st March 2007, 19:20
SGLI can only refuse to pay for a direct violation of a law or regulation. If the base regulation says you must wear such and such gear while on base, and there are no comparable laws for off base then they have to pay. If the base regulation, or higher reg stipulates you must wear said gear whenever operating a motorcycle then yes they can deny it.

And they absolutely will. I too saw it happen with a guy who was passed out in the back seat of a car. He called a buddy for a ride home, sober driver but they got into an accident anyway. Kid in back was killed and his wife and baby got nada because he wasn't seat belted.

Great suggestion for the HD gear. Hope they are listening because it really is a needed item.

I think most requirements are DOD-wide. When I was on active duty it seemed like they were trying to make it as difficult as possible to ride a motorcycle so we'd all quit.

LDO
21st March 2007, 19:55
This topic comes up quite a bit especially with the amount of sport bike riders I have here in SoCal. I use this link as well as the base legal when someone has a question regarding SGLI and motorcyles. Here's the link to the Department of Veteran's Affairs website.

http://www.insurance.va.gov/sgliSite/SGLI/mythsRumors.htm

Here's some additional info.

True or False: SGLI won’t pay if I die while wearing privately purchased body armor or a privately purchased helmet.

False: SGLI claims are paid regardless of body armor or helmet type. Wearing body armor or a helmet is not a requirement for a SGLI claim to be paid.


True or False: SGLI or VGLI won’t pay if I die in a motor vehicle accident or airplane accident and wasn’t wearing a seat belt.

False: SGLI or VGLI claims are paid regardless of whether the member was or was not wearing a seatbelt.


True or False: SGLI or VGLI won't pay if I die in a motorcycle accident and I was not wearing a helmet.

False: Your SGLI or VGLI proceeds will be paid to your beneficiary or beneficiaries, regardless of whether you were or were not wearing a helmet.

I have never directly known anyone killed on a MC not wearing proper PPE who's beneficiary was denied by SGLI. I've 'heard' about it, but It's always been, someone who heard a story someone was telling about a guy they knew, and blah, blah, blah.

Hope this helps.

CT1200
21st March 2007, 19:58
I think most requirements are DOD-wide. When I was on active duty it seemed like they were trying to make it as difficult as possible to ride a motorcycle so we'd all quit.

Seems to make sense to me, your government property once you sign the papers right? So they are protecting their investment in you right? No offense to anyone but thats the way I had it explained to me by enlisted personnel.

LDO
21st March 2007, 20:09
I think most requirements are DOD-wide. When I was on active duty it seemed like they were trying to make it as difficult as possible to ride a motorcycle so we'd all quit.


BMC,
It seems that way for sure.
Here on Pendleton, it's pretty damn rediculous. The rider safety courses which are supposed to be a one-time and you're done (at least they are everywhere else I've been), expire after one year for the BRC, and two years for the ERC (beginner rider's course and experienced rider's course).

You can't be more than one arm's distance away from your bike with your gear on if in uniform, no open belt drives (even if you purchased the bike that way from the factory/dealership) Orange vest on 24/7 and the list goes on and on.

Many folks opt to just not ride on base and simplify their lives.
Last week they 'profiled' all bike riders and had us pull over to a parking lot as we came aboard the base and checked for current safety course, registration, and insurance paperwork.

I asked the guy running the show there if there was a plan to do this for automobile drivers since I know they could also let their insurance lapse and stuff. He said, "nope, just you guys".

Funny how we have to show proficiency in operating our bikes but car drivers don't and they SUCK here in SoCal! :frownthre

BTW,
Thanks for letting me vent!:D :D

Scooter_Trash
21st March 2007, 20:21
Seems like all the post above only specify "brightly colored" vests. Who determines what brightly colored is? Can you wear red, blue, yellow or green as long as it's a "bright" form of those?

LDO
21st March 2007, 20:49
That's the problem. It depends on which base you are on. Some bases don't even require bright clothing or reflective vests until sundown.

It would seem that DOD-Wide regulations are needed so that you know what you can and can't do regardless of what base or branch you are in!

And as far as the rider safety course certifications go, I have a buddy who is an E-7 in the Marines. He's an MSF coach and stationed in Yuma. If he were to get stationed in Pendleton, he would have to go thru the beginner rider course here before he would be allowed to ride his bike here!

YGBSM!!:frownthre :frownthre

Luckymic
21st March 2007, 21:26
I am currently stationed aboard NAS Lemoore in the CA central valley. I'm a NAVY "A" school instructor. Every student that checks in here, Navy or Marine Corps, fills out a Page 13 that goes in their service record stating that they understand the Navy motorcycle policy and that a failure to wear the proper personell protective equipment will result in a Line of Duty investigation. The Line of Duty investegation results will determine wether you SGLI benifets would be paid or not. We've had one student thus far die in a motorcycle crash (crotch rocket doing 130 mph) and a Line of Duty investigation was conducted. The Service Members wife was paid his SGLI in the end.

Something else to consider is that any Commanding Officer can "add to" any DOD instruction by simply writing a base wide SOP. NAS Lemoore states that you must wear an Orange or Yellow reflective vest at all times. I ride with my HD reflective vest until some tells me I need a different one. When they do I always keep a base approved safty vest in my backpak and I'll throw it on to apease whom ever the gate gaurd is for the time being.

tattedas2
22nd March 2007, 01:44
NAS Oceana here. I have yet to ride on this base, but have talked to a few guys. they "said" that at night as long as there is some reflective on your jacket, shirt, whatever, you are good. I have seen guys riding in black leather jackets, that have the reflective piping (crotch rockets) on base. During the day, whites, light gray, orange, blah blah blah......just not dark colors like brown, black, dark blue etc. Has to be bright or a light color. Gloves, helmet, blah blah, the usual stuff.

One thing that gets me, is you have to wear goggles, not glasses. No glasses meet the regs......how !!!!ed is that? I mean, I wear goggles most of the time, but sometimes I do like to wear just glasses that have the foam surrounds. They seal to your face as good as the goggles do.

rokclmb
22nd March 2007, 03:01
About 2 years ago (I think) the navy changed their regulations from brightly colored outer garment to "lime green" or "international orange". Also the reflective belt doesn't work any more. It has to be a vest type reflector.

Navy Reg see page 6 of PDF (http://www.cfay.navy.mil/License/Motorcycle/COMFLEACTINST%205800.9K.pdf)

tattedas2
22nd March 2007, 03:31
Here, these may help.

The first on is the 5100.12G. Safety instruction for traffic
http://www.nps.navy.mil/safety/PDFs/5100_12g.pdf

This is a listing of all the applicable instructions, straight from the Navy's safety center.
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/instructions/default.htm

Here is the power point presentation that is from NAS Oceana safety.
http://www.nasoceana.navy.mil/safety/Training/MotorcycleTraining/257,1,Motorcycle Safety Requirements



Pay close attention to Enclosure (1) Para 2 in the 5100.

wrenchbender
22nd March 2007, 03:42
I think it's DOD wide now but here in Korea they require you to complete an MSF course every three years. So that means I, as a contractor, have to take a friday off from work, losing pay for that day and losing Per-Diem for Friday, Saturday and Sunday losing quite a chunk of change for a "free" course. Then have to spend 8 hours with Joseph 'lay it down' Lee who's favorite thing is to yell at you all day about how you suck at riding when he can't go a year without wrecking his.

tattedas2
22nd March 2007, 03:49
That sucks that you lose all that money, but I hate to say it, you can just not take the class. You are a contractor, only reason you need it is to get on base. Active duty is required to have it regardless if you ride on base or not. Just don't ride to work....:boohoo

wrenchbender
22nd March 2007, 04:15
That's like asking me to chop up a kitten! Fer Christ sakes! You're mental for even suggesting that.

wrenchbender
22nd March 2007, 04:17
Anyway, by USFK regulation I too am required at all times here, driving under a USFK drivers license to have a current MSF safety course.

tattedas2
22nd March 2007, 04:33
Well......then that sucks. Didn't know it was like that for contractors overseas.

Was just making a suggestion on how to avoid having to waste all that money, and a day off work. Trust me, I know what you mean about not riding to work. My bike is in PA right now, and I am dieing. Gonna get it in 2 weeks though.....:banana

Rob Henderson
22nd March 2007, 04:41
I feel your pain!

While I am no longer in the military I teach undergraduate and undergraduate classes to Nellis Air Force Base service people. When I ride my bike on base to the classroom building I have to have long sleeves and gloves. Nothing is said about reflective gear. I think it is because I am a civilian and there only for about 4 hours a week. The problem lies when I have a class in the summer....It is 115-120 degrees and I gotta have long sleeves....That is HOT......and a real inconvenience.

Pinson
22nd March 2007, 05:21
I agree that the color thing is overboard. Ya'll read DOD regulation 6055, query motorcycle. It'll give you the basic regulation that every base/post follows (or should. Just remember any base commander can add to a regulation, but not take away from. I make it a point to carry each post/base motorcyle traffic reg in my pocket (that I visit).It's amazing how many gate guards forgot how to read. Also keep in mind every person that rides on a military installation is required to have completed an MSF course, even civilians.

Nightster72
5th June 2007, 05:58
I am in the AF and we are having the same issue with the reflective vests. I have one of the black/silver HD vests and was told it would no longer be legal to use on base. So here is what I did. I took one of my old "blaze orange" reflective belts (the old issued plastic style) and simply had it sewn around the bottom of the vest, discarding the leftover to make the vest still function. It is still quite bright during the day and enhances the vest at night. Kinda ugly, but since its pretty close to HD orange, I got away with putting a HD shield in the middle of the belt, looks much better now. Just an idea if you want to chance the 35 bucks it cost for the HD vest.

Old_Goat57
5th June 2007, 07:26
Stopped in the local AF base and bought the reflective belt shown here

http://www.safesports.com/nightsafe.html

I think it was in the bicycle section or military clothing section.

Adjust it to the length needed to wear as a sash - diagonally across from one shoulder to your opposite waist.

At a stop-light off base, its easy to slip off, roll up and stuff in a pocket or saddlebag before the light changes.

Also, my HD helmet is reflective silver on black helmet

I would be willing to have a patch or H-D emblem sewn on my jacket or vest in brighter H-D orange / silver / black for the daytime visibility - even better if it somewhat reflective.

cuban_sporty_rider
5th June 2007, 07:36
i really feel for you. Army only requires that you wear a reflective belt over your long sleeve shirt. no other reg to it. i just leave an extra belt straped over my backpack i wear to work every day.

Ruhan123
8th June 2007, 20:26
Well the AR 385-55 requires a bit more than the reflective tape across a back pack. MSF being one, Long sleeve shirts, eye protection, full fingered gloves, long pants, over the ankle boots etc. If I recall correctly the recent guidance from HQDA a letter that supplements the guidance has come out in the last 2 - 3 years. I beleive ACTIVE DUTY folks have to wear this stuff on and off duty, regardless of state laws. DA Civilians such as myself when riding on official orders, must abide by the same standard. Contractors must abide by the standard if you wish to operate on a FEDERAL INSTALLATION which all bases are. I'm sure somewhere in the contract you work under they have the catch all phrase all federal state & local laws. If you have an accident and report states you didn't have it on and are injured or worse killed a LINE OF DUTY investigation can find you acted out of line of duty and LOTS of Benefits can be taken away or not given. How legal it is or not isn't for me to decide but when you talk about non-judicial punishment (if your still alive) medical costs, lost time etc. etc., doesn't seem to be worth it. Not to mention the hassle your family will have to deal with if you didn't survive. Is it worth the risk?? Only you can decide. I did twenty one years and although I personally didn't agree with it, I choose to abide by it because I choose to serve. Admittedly different posts may impement it differently but wo be the commander who doesn't act. .

jharback
18th November 2007, 11:40
This is all CYA B*llsh*t. The higher-ups require this crap so when they have a bad accident or a rash of accidents and the the Four Star asks "What the !!!!!! is going on at your base, the local General can point to his regs and say he's doing everything possible to prevent it. It keeps him from getting a bad OER or relieved.

Donz5oh
19th November 2007, 20:06
Shawn,
Thank you for the comments I really didn't think of the insurance side of things. I was one of those guys who thought he was bullet proof and I never even thought about life insurance.
So I rescind my last statement and say do what you can to stay within regulation while making your own styling statement.
Remember there are more important things then being perceived as being cool. You are cool because you wear that uniform. Hooah! (I was Army I don't know what Marines would say)

Sam :banadanc

The Corps says "Oorah!" Though not neccessarily pronounced phonetically, it is typically verbalized with quite a bit of enthusiasm, making it an excellent war cry.

Semper Fi

Don

COSpringer
19th November 2007, 23:17
Looks like each base interprets the DOD and Service regs differently.
(Break, Break)
A separate issue about regs that's not safety related. What are folks doing about DOD stickers? Local bases require sticking them on the lower left fork leg but some folks have mounted plates in various places with the stickers attached and get away with it. Not only do they look like crap but if you ever have to remove them, the only way to get them off is by scraping them off. Any ideas?

John1200
1st December 2007, 07:52
Wow! This is an old thread. I have nothing to offer but a heartfelt thanks to those that serve. God be with you.

rokclmb
1st December 2007, 18:48
I was at the local HD dealer a few weeks ago and they had a HD vest that was similar to the Icon vest.

rokclmb
3rd December 2007, 19:00
Here's a pic
http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/9d46c558bc2dc2/resource.harley-davidson.com/media/images/productphotos/MC/98172_08VM_M_21f98.jpghttp://www.harley-davidson.com/media/images/productphotos/MC/98172_08VMB_M_21f9a.jpg
Harley-Davidson Reflective Vest (http://www.harley-davidson.com/mcm/mcm_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=84552444877092 2&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302286015&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302286015&bmUID=1196704644650&bmLocale=en_US)

skratch
3rd December 2007, 19:33
Looks like each base interprets the DOD and Service regs differently.
(Break, Break)
A separate issue about regs that's not safety related. What are folks doing about DOD stickers? Local bases require sticking them on the lower left fork leg but some folks have mounted plates in various places with the stickers attached and get away with it. Not only do they look like crap but if you ever have to remove them, the only way to get them off is by scraping them off. Any ideas?

i took an empty plastic bottle (straight type, no funky curves like a coke bottle) and cut the top and bottom off, then split it down the middle. i then wrapped it around my crash bar (on the road king, lower fork leg on the sporty) and zip tied it in place. stick the dod sticker on that and add 1 more zip tie in the middle if needed. works great, can take it off if i want to wash/polish or not advertise military affiliation. no one has ever said boo about it. maybe different at different bases though.

jdb
5th December 2007, 21:59
I like the new HD reflective vest - much better than the old one. Way to go, Harley! I'm going to stick with my $5 road guard vest, though.

XLFREAK
27th December 2007, 03:46
I've got nothing to add to the discussion of reflective gear, but I wanna say to Davii and the other service people on the thread "Thanks for your service."

cypher
5th January 2008, 04:22
I'm sure most of you know this already, but thought I would add it anyway! They have done away with the base stickers--no more crappy looking stickers on the bike! Each base is supposed to implement this rule, so there may be a couple that are a little slow. They check ID anyway, and said that stickers are expensive and time consuming (renewing them). You can scrape them off or leave them on.

rick szymanski
5th January 2008, 05:09
I've had the mandatory briefings, taken the MSF class, updated my supervisor of my equipment and riding clothes, we take it another step further with our automobiles. Twice a year we "inspect" all private vehicles that our troops drive. It's ridiculous. I completely understand safety and I also understand the concept of not letting stuff bite you in the butt. That's what the regulations do...keeps Private Snuffy from crying the blues from careless or unsafe behavior because he was made well aware of the "Plan of Success." If he fails in his planning, he can blame no one. His Lt., Platoon Daddy, Sqad leader are no longer accountable for his/her poor judgement. I don't like the rules, but as a Platoon Daddy myself, I have to lead by example and do the "right" thing. As far as SGLI...so many stories of the "I heard..." Check the website that was posted for info and call directly and speak to a representative and get a REAL answer. Gate guards don't create the regs...hell, they probably don't read them...I don't read them until I absolutely have to, myself. Dry reading...kind of like reading the book "How to make love to Rosie O'donnell, By Rosie O'donnell." Good luck on your quest for a non-queer looking vest...jacket. Thanks for your service!

bat123
8th January 2008, 11:07
Well I'm holding my breath on this one, I work on base here and have not been asked MSF cert or reflective clothing. We're on a host nation base but work American only areas.
Wrenchbender I feel your pain I had to endure "Mr" Lee and his attitude what a little prick he is. Osan was so on again off again about gear, one night the black reflective Harley vest was good then the next night I had to have orange/green so I just kept everthing in my backpack so if one sky cop wanted one thing I had it. When I left the base I promptly pulled over ditched it all and rolled on to Osan City.

I spent 20 years and the Air Force and didn't start riding again until I retired, I just didn't want to put up with it on active duty.

havi0412c
10th January 2008, 16:23
I hated riding on base enough that I didnt even bother with all the regs and such, I just parked at a friends house walking distance away from work and went from there. Pearl Harbor has houses right outside of the main gate. I couldnt just walk to the ship because I lived in Kailua, about 20 minuites away. It was much easier and the walk was a stress reliever.

COSpringer
11th January 2008, 00:46
I'm sure most of you know this already, but thought I would add it anyway! They have done away with the base stickers--no more crappy looking stickers on the bike! Each base is supposed to implement this rule, so there may be a couple that are a little slow. They check ID anyway, and said that stickers are expensive and time consuming (renewing them). You can scrape them off or leave them on.

Air Force has done away with them but Army still requires them. I live in Colorado Springs with Fort Carson and Peterson AFB, Schriever AFB, and Air Force Academy. Air Force riders have the ass with Fort Carson because they still need a sticker to go on post or else go through the Full Monty shake down (license, registration, insurance, MSF card in addition to ID card), even though they only need ID card to get on the Air Force bases.

COSpringer
11th January 2008, 00:47
I'm sure most of you know this already, but thought I would add it anyway! They have done away with the base stickers--no more crappy looking stickers on the bike! Each base is supposed to implement this rule, so there may be a couple that are a little slow. They check ID anyway, and said that stickers are expensive and time consuming (renewing them). You can scrape them off or leave them on.

Air Force has done away with them but Army still requires them. I live in Colorado Springs with Fort Carson and Peterson AFB, Schriever AFB, and Air Force Academy. Air Force riders have the ass with Fort Carson because they still need a sticker to go on post or else go through the Full Monty shake down (drivers license, registration, insurance, MSF card in addition to ID card), even though they only need ID card to get on the Air Force bases.

havi0412c
11th January 2008, 01:21
The navy still requires base stickers too, at least in Pearl Harbor.

druber13
11th January 2008, 01:30
It was like that in 1985 too. I was at Fort Hood then. It was a hassle but I love riding!! (I use to dump my saftey gear too),

emackel
11th January 2008, 02:11
Hey try this jacket. I got one and it works for everything I need.
http://www.newenough.com/browse/view_product_images/391