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View Full Version : Just Voided my Warranty


MakuaKane
8th January 2007, 20:53
I noticed my oil was getting a bit dark so I decided to change it. H-D did the 1k and 5K service with H-D oil. She's just under 8K now.
I changed to Redline 20w-50 and a K&N filter. Both good products.

When I was dumping the old oil into the bucket, I noticed what looked like fine copper glitter in the oil when in the sunlight. I called up the dealer to ask if this was normal and explained what I'd done (above). Ooops. He was a little upset and said that's why they like to do the oil changes so they can keep and eye on things, and ....... that I'd just voided my warranty. Shouldn't have used Redline. Not designed for air cooled engines.
Ok I said, what about AMSOIL Motorcycle oil? Noooooo! he says.
At this point it became very clear to me. They wanted ALL my money, not just a little now and then. Fortunately for me, now I get to save my money and do the services myself and not pay them any longer. Warranty is void anyway right?

I'm not able to recall the specs at the moment, but isn't the thermal breakdown temp higher with Redline than H-D regular oil? And since I'm not using the Redline in the Tranny, I shouldn't have to worry about any friction modifier problems.

I just became the only AMSOIL dealer on my island, so you can be sure I'll be using that when I get squared away with the rest of my paperwork.

Thanks for letting me vent:doh

snowman
8th January 2007, 20:57
Sounds like bull:censor to me. 'Course I voided my warranty when I swapped out the swing arm, welded in a new seat area and put in a new oil tank to hold all that synthetic stuff I'm going to be putting in mine!!!!!:geek:geek:geek

ed_in_az
8th January 2007, 20:57
It may be expensive but I figure I can't go wrong with Syn3.

Sorry about your troubles. It sounds like the dealer just found himself a loophole.

Jimbos883
8th January 2007, 21:01
Actually your warranty cannot be voided by using a different oil. This topic has been discussed on this forum in the past. They only way H-D can void the warranty on that motor for not using their oil is that they have to supply their oil for you to use "free". If they supply the oil for free and you don't use it and there is failure due to using a different oil they can then void your warranty.

That dealer is just pulling the normal bull!!!t with you. Tell him that you are going to talk customer service and see how he reacts. Good chance he changes his tune.

Snuffy
8th January 2007, 21:24
Actually your warranty cannot be voided by using a different oil. This topic has been discussed on this forum in the past. They only way H-D can void the warranty on that motor for not using their oil is that they have to supply their oil for you to use "free". If they supply the oil for free and you don't use it and there is failure due to using a different oil they can then void your warranty.

That dealer is just pulling the normal bull!!!t with you. Tell him that you are going to talk customer service and see how he reacts. Good chance he changes his tune.

Jimbo said it all:clap :clap

66impala
8th January 2007, 21:34
I know ive seen older posts about this topic, and some legal rights you have even if you do your own service work. Main thing is save your receipts and upc's off of boxs for the oil and the filter. I have always done my own maintenace, while in warranty i used HD oil filters. I used mobil one since 5k change and still use HD filters.

shotgun46
8th January 2007, 21:43
Actually your warranty cannot be voided by using a different oil just keep your recipts and a log of dates and miles

skratch
8th January 2007, 21:43
as said previously, they cannot void your warranty because you did not use their oil. the law that addresses this is the magnuson-moss warranty act. if you use an oil that is comparable in specs to hd oil, then you are fine. if there is an issue, they have to prove that it was because of what you did that caused the failure, ie. if you have an engine failure it was because of the oil you used. if you have a totally non related issue, they still have to honor the warranty. they cannot deny a warranty claim for brakes because you used a different motor oil.

you should call customer service and let them know what kind of crap their dealer is pulling.

mark883
8th January 2007, 22:02
Remember the old VU meters on old amps and tape decks?

Well, if my bullsh1tometer was connected to your phone, the meter would have been bouncing hard into, and off of, the red zone, making that little 'tink-tink-tink' sound.

Pure, total, and absolute BS. If you've got 8k mi on your bike, the engine most likely won't blow up at this point due to an oil related problem anyways (but they could still not deny an oil problem, because of reasons above. You changed your oil. Good boy). An exhaust shield might fall off, a clutch cable may snap, etc. but the warranty would still apply to these items, they are totally non-oil related.

mikeLI_77
8th January 2007, 22:11
didn't someone post in here not to long ago that harley recently had a bulletin go out recognizing that amsoil was a safe oil to use in HD's? Thought I remember hearing that. Chris should be able to clear this one up.

Takingabreak
8th January 2007, 22:29
HI all.

Ok, If the Redline oil you bought is motorcycle rated oil, then No, your warranty is in tacked.
If you are using Car oil that is not rated for use in a air cooled motorcycle engine, then if Harley can show that the oil CAUSED the failure, then that can void the warranty.
Check with Redline, if they say that the oil you bought is Ok for your bike, then if Harley won't cover it, Redline will. Try to get a letter form them stating it is ok for your bike and keep it on file.
Same with the oil filter, only use one that is made for your Motorcycle. Yes, there are ford filters that will fit, but the by-pass check valve is not rated for your motorcycles low pressure pump. Again, the wrong filter will give Harley a reason to void the warranty.

The K&N filter should be fine, as long as it is not made for the twin Cam engine an is for the sportster.

Takingabreak
8th January 2007, 22:35
20W50
The ultimate high-temperature protection in Red Line engine oils recommended for street use. Good for engines that regularly run very high oil temperatures. Best for engines that run large clearances such as air-cooled engines or large-displacement, all-out racing engines that see occasional street use. Provides 25% more viscosity in bearings than petroleum 20W-50s. Not recommended for use in cold climates where temperatures are at or below 10°F or -12°C. Not recommended for street use in production engines that see sustained oil temperatures below 225°F (those engines should use Red Line 10W-30 or 10W-40).
20W50

This is strait off Redlines web page, i don't think were you live you have to worry about 10* temps, and it plainly states for air cooled engine and street use.
Seems to me you should be good to go, but having a letter from redline stating it is ok for use in a Harley is still better.

jms969
8th January 2007, 22:37
Your warranty should be fine as long as the oil and filter that you used were designed for the application. Even then Harley would have to prove that the non Harley parts were the cause of any failure.

Here are a couple of links to Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act explanations. Print and take a copy with you to your dealer and if he still spews this bs

1. Call Harley and complain
2. File a complaint with the FTC
3. Have fun

You will still probably have to use another stealer in the future (as well as you should after treatment like this)

Magnuson-Moss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act)

Another Excellent Link (http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm)


Take care,

JMS

Gary7
8th January 2007, 22:41
As has been already stated, the dealer is full of shit.

I'd complain directly to HD about this.

sportysrock
8th January 2007, 22:48
Oh yeah, you're warranty is toast. As a matter of fact,
ALL OF YOUR WARRANTIES ARE TOAST!

I'm gonna need all of your names and VIN #'s to report you to HD. BA-HA-HA-HA!!!

Thanks for the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act link again JMS.
:D

DC in PHX
8th January 2007, 22:49
Here is a list of the world's most common lies:
1. I'll respect you in the morning
2. Oh yes, I'm on birth control
3. That voids the warranty
4. All Harleys do that
DC

wildwill8
8th January 2007, 23:15
you can use 20w-50 Auto Oil as well it exceeds stands of the HD oil anyways just look at the API rate on the oil

Wardog
9th January 2007, 01:14
This is such an old turkey that I am suprised that there are dealers still stupid enough to try it. As the others have said it is bull roar.

MakuaKane
9th January 2007, 08:37
Thanks to EVERYONE for your replies. You guys really made my day. Man that prick at the stealers pissed me off. Felt like I was being interrogated by the stripmall police.
Also, Thanks JMS for the links, especially that second one. Knowledge is power.
I don't need any warranty service at the moment, so I think I'm gonna just stay cool for now. This dealership is owned by friends of mine, not sure if they know how this one shop guy is coming across. This is an island though, like a big family. You see the same people all the time and you can't really get away. So I'm gonna play it cool unless I have a big breakdown. Then I'll be prepared to fight my case thanks to you all.

About the copper colored glitter in the oil, what's the concensus on how "normal" that might be on an 8k mile '06. I'm thinking with the switch to synthetic that I'll see a lot less of it. Still interested to hear your views though. Aloha, Joe

Moved On / My Own Choice
9th January 2007, 12:42
Your dealer is a DICK find a better one!

1stGenRex
9th January 2007, 17:12
Remember the old VU meters on old amps and tape decks?

Well, if my bullsh1tometer was connected to your phone, the meter would have been bouncing hard into, and off of, the red zone, making that little 'tink-tink-tink' sound.



Kinda like this???

http://www.djmaillet.com/Shit-Meter.gif

xena
9th January 2007, 18:22
Your dealer is a DICK find a better one!

Kinda hard to do as he's
on an island in Hawaii and
most likely only one HD
game in town.

avnsteve
9th January 2007, 19:11
about the metal shavings in the oil, I can't say how "normal" that is. If you're using amsoil, then pull a sample IAW their instructions and send it to oilanalysis.com to have them tell you what's in the oil. then you'll know. that lab has destroyed a great many warranty denial claims before.

MakuaKane
10th January 2007, 08:47
I've had to become an AMSOIL dealer to get the stuff, but I'm just getting started and havn't made my order yet. I just put in Redline 20W-50 and have a K & N (KN-171C) oil filter on there that is for my bike. I'm not too excited about Harley filters now either after seeing the metal flake suspended in the oil.
I'm going to run what I've got for 1k and then take a sample and check it out.

I like going down to the dealership for the parties and stuff and really can't make a stink if I want to keep doing that. No reason to complain yet anyway, I don't want anything from them. I will have a MMI friend of mine help me with the 10K and 15K maintenance items that I don't feel comfortable doing myself. They've lost my business for those. I might just put that AMSOIL sticker somewhere on the bike (maybe a saddlebag bracket) just to raise a few hackles. I refuse to be a sell-out to everything Harley.:gun

Moved On / My Own Choice
10th January 2007, 17:21
Kinda hard to do as he's
on an island in Hawaii and
most likely only one HD
game in town.

There are 3 fly-n-rides which means there are probably at least 3 different locations (granted probably on other islands, and might not be worth the boat ride, if one is available), but still.

As a Guzzi owner I know what it is like to go a couple hundred miles to deal with someone else.

Or in my case, to mail-order parts from Houston!

K

Jimbos883
10th January 2007, 19:09
There are 3 fly-n-rides which means there are probably at least 3 different locations (granted probably on other islands, and might not be worth the boat ride, if one is available), but still.

As a Guzzi owner I know what it is like to go a couple hundred miles to deal with someone else.

Or in my case, to mail-order parts from Houston!

K

Probably the same dealer owns all three of those fly-n-rides. Afterall it's a small island chain.

Moved On / My Own Choice
10th January 2007, 19:36
Probably the same dealer owns all three of those fly-n-rides. Afterall it's a small island chain.

Yeah, I was thinking that could be a possibility when I was typing that.

Like I said, I mail order parts from 1/2 way across the country on my Guzzi...

gotta do, what ya gotta do.

kballowe
11th January 2007, 00:16
I'm in the middle of the good old U.S.A. and my local dealer tried that crap on me. "You gotta use Genuine Harley oil or it will void your warranty. I called the 1-800 Harley line and explained myself. Was told that if Harley could prove that the oil was the source of the failure, then it would not be covered under the warranty unless it was genuine HD oil. Then I asked them how many oil-related failures they'd seen and he told me that he wasn't aware of any. Same with the local HD mechanics. I think the phrase was "have never actually ever seen an oil related failure"..... "but had a FUBAR transmission once but that was because there was water in there".

I printed the letter from HD to AMSOIL explaining that using AMSOIL would not void the warranty. Took it to my local dealer and asked them to comment on it. They looked like little children that just got caught with their collective hands in the proverbial cookie jar.

They saw the Power Commander on my Road King when it came in for the first service and had a cow saying that my entire warranty is VOID.... Short story is that I again called the 1-800 Harley number and got the real scoop. ......and then back to the dealer to educate them. I gave them the extension to the guy I talked to @ HD Central and encouraged them to call and have the same conversation that I had, just an hour before.


Now if you REALLY want to know what's going on inside that engine, the only way to do it is to send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs. It's like 22 bucks and one of the easiest things you'll ever do.

www.blackstone-labs.com

I've done this for years and my conclusion is that you can run just about anything as long as you change it regularly and use a good oil filter.

MakuaKane
11th January 2007, 06:17
If I take it to them for the 10k service, I'll have them send an oil sample at my expense rather than get rid of my perfectly good Redline.
And yes, the same folks own both Harley dealerships on this island. I do not believe that the shop fellas know what they're talking about regarding this whole non-HD oil/parts issue. However I'm not going to volunteer to enlighten them. I'll wait for the challenge first then go to my saddlebag for the Magneson-Moss paper and then call H-D customer service while they watch me and wait. May even let them talk to customer service themselves with my cell. That should be memorable.
I'm feeling kinda punchy now. Just got back from my 40th Birthday dinner at the Kona Brewpub, and YES I've had a few.

Aloha and thanks for your input:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

SamIam
11th January 2007, 06:33
dealer BS. I would not worry about it and if the subject comes up again with them tell them they need to check their facts. I've been told that before and I have said "show me" where it is written that I can only use HD oil?
I want that in writing for my lawyer :D
Shuts them right up. :D

XLXR
11th January 2007, 08:30
Amsoil also offers oil analysis. Consecutive oil analysis from any source may provide good evidence the oil did not cause any future failure. HD may not respect the oil analysis results, but a judge should, if it ever has to go that far.

If you report this to Amsoil, I think Amsoil will send an informative letter to the misinformed dealer.

TheForce
17th March 2007, 06:11
Just an update, the dealer in Lynnwood, WA now sells AMSOIL for $9.95.

Gone
17th March 2007, 07:14
I'd be interested in knowing what parts of H-D internals contain copper based metal, since copper colored chips were found? Sounds like machining chips from a prior operation that did not get flushed 100% before assembly. I know it has aluminum (white), steel (gray), cast iron (dark gray), and stellite valve seats (gray). Are the factory valve guides bronze?

chrishajer
17th March 2007, 07:35
Nope, factory valve guides are cast iron. The only bronze/brass parts in the engine are bushings.

--Chris

Rob Henderson
17th March 2007, 13:25
I found this correspondance on the AMS site.


http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/medium/Letter1.jpg

jborlace883
17th March 2007, 15:33
The Magnason Moss Act states that no aftermarket product designed for your vehicle can void your warranty.Them telling you that you have voided your warranty is BS.They just want you to bring your bike in and give them your money and use the crap HD oil.

Paul
22nd March 2007, 05:48
It is dealers like that that run business off and make you want to mailorder your parts even though they are 2 blocks away......Redline oil not being able to handle the heat of an air cooled Harley engine????? What a crock. If I remember correctly Redline is the only synthetic capable of standing up to the heat and pressures of jet aircraft engines. That dealer should lose his HD franchise and open up a coconut stand.

Alloy
22nd March 2007, 15:01
[QUOTE=Paul;669290]It is dealers like that that run business off and make you want to mailorder your parts even though they are 2 blocks away /QUOTE]

I agree! That's why I now mail order parts from Zanotti's even though I live in Missouri. Got tired of being treated like sh*t and paying too much for parts too!

Hot Rod Sporty
22nd March 2007, 17:28
Seems to me that they think that they've (the service dept.) got your business wrapped up and are being assholes as a result. I'd go privately to your friends that own the dealership and let them know what their service department is up to.:frownthre

wormjello
23rd March 2007, 02:58
Three words. Magnuson-Moss Act. Also read the Warranty statement in your owners manual. Your dealer may not like it but it's the law.

sportysrock
23rd March 2007, 04:40
Three words. Magnuson-Moss Act. Also read the Warranty statement in your owners manual. Your dealer may not like it but it's the law.


Exactly dude. Have some rep.