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-   -   89" will it fit in a buell tuber? (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252690)

jmr1283 28th June 2008 16:40

89" will it fit in a buell tuber?
 
Does anyone know if the 89" kit from s&s will fit in a tuber? im currently trying to figure out what i want my new motor to go in. i really love s1w's x1's. ive looked over the s&s website and found nothing. im just curious because they have their 100", which is probably close to the size of my 99"

aswracing 29th June 2008 01:31

The 89 is almost .400 taller than stock. I personally wouldn't want to squeeze one into a tuber. I think you'll get lots of clunking from the motor hitting the frame.

The 100 is about a quarter inch taller than stock. It barely fits in a tuber. In an S1/S3 chassis you've got to lower the motor to get the right rear rocker box bolt out. In an S2 chassis you can just get it.

jmr1283 29th June 2008 02:44

thanks aaron i was hoping ud pick up this thread.
 
I need to learn up of how the engines mount in a tuber. Does it have a top motor mount(between cylinders)? i wasnt sure i did. so the upper frame has the lower rear mounting brakes, well actually i quess all the mounting points?

I guess ill just stick to my original idea of a sportster frame. I think im goin to cut out the back bone and weld in a new one that gives more room for this type of motor. Andy simmons has some for sale(probably fab my own) This way i wouldnt have to take the motor out for removal of rockers. ill have to check it out more just because it might make it difficult to fit a tank and make it still comfortable for street use.
I was thinkin today when i extend the swingarm what would be a good amount. i thought 6" would be a start. anyone?
Also whats a nice priced light wheel. most i see for aluminum are 600.00-1000.00. laced would they stand up to the beatings?
Aaron do u think that with 15 degree pistons and xb heads rs.643 and 12to1 be run of 91 octane? without having to retard the bike and capably power?
if so whats the typical max comp. with my setup i could go with out having detenation problems? ahh im so long winded.

Kazoom 29th June 2008 02:47

I think the key tools to make a big cube fit is...



http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/L11042150.jpg

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/g..._mig_350mp.gif

at least this is what I am using on my X1:banana:doh:banana:doh:banana:doh

jmr1283 29th June 2008 03:04

please fill me in. is this the bike with the 114 goin into? man are u racing that thing? when i first saw that on egay i was thinkin of purchasing it but its a true all out race motor. not really street friendly. 729 lift i think? wow. its a really kick as motor.
got pics! liked to know what ur doin to fit it. im buell illeterate.lol by modding the frame above the motor does that effect how the tank fits? please please please fill in the details!

Kazoom 29th June 2008 03:27

Yup thats the plan, wasint planning on racing it... just getting to work real fast:wonderlan... Once its detuned it will be fine to run out and get beer with:wonderlan, anyway plan on chopping it up over winter, got some old mustang projects to finish first. I will post some pics when I start, I got some BIG plans for it.:wonderlan

aswracing 29th June 2008 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr1283 (Post 1332134)
I need to learn up of how the engines mount in a tuber. Does it have a top motor mount(between cylinders)?

It does, but it's not solid mounted to the frame, it has a heim link.

Basically, on a tuber, the engine bolts to the swingarm & rear wheel. That's all 1 unit. Then the frame & front end make up the other unit. Let me find a pic ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/rrmotorleft.jpg
My S2 race bike. The frame/front wheel assembly attaches to this assembly (through rubber isolators) at 3 places: the rubber donuts at the swingarm pivot on each side (you can see one of them in the pic) and also at the front of the front head (I make a special billet mount for this attachment point).

So the frame/front end assembly "floats" on the engine/rear end assembly through the 3 rubber mounts. To keep it from torsionally twisting, there are 3 heim links: one at the back, that sits on top of the swingarm mounting block, another at the top, that sits in between the cylinders, and one at the front, that connects near the oil filter pad. These heims allow the two main assemblies to move independently in the vertical plane but not in the horizontal plane. So the engine can vibrate up and down, but not sideways, and the wheels always point the same direction.

Quote:

I guess ill just stick to my original idea of a sportster frame. I think im goin to cut out the back bone and weld in a new one that gives more room for this type of motor.
I think that's a good idea. I had my 100" in an S3 chassis for awhile. It banged on the frame. And it's only a quarter inch taller than stock. You'd have to do a lot of hacking to get anything bigger into a tuber.

Quote:

I was thinkin today when i extend the swingarm what would be a good amount. i thought 6" would be a start. anyone?
Drag racers mess with this a lot, trying to get a perfect balance between traction (shorter) and keeping the front end down (longer). Most guys with Buell chassis' end up at around 10" of stretch. On the XL chassis I think you can get away with a little less since it's not so wheelie prone. You can find a thousand opinions on this though.

Quote:

Aaron do u think that with 15 degree pistons and xb heads rs.643 and 12to1 be run of 91 octane? without having to retard the bike and capably power?
I'd run a little less, like 11.25 to 11.5:1 with 643's on a pump gas street bike. I run 643's in a couple of my street bikes, and that's where I've found they want to be. Even there I have to be careful about top gear roll ons, they'll rattle if I ask it to pull from too low of an rpm. I took one down to 10.5:1 and it's too soft. I wouldn't go below 11:1. We run 13.5 to 14:1 with 643's in the race bikes. 643's are great cams, they can make a mountain of power and yet they're not so hard on the valvetrain that you can't run'em on the street.

jmr1283 29th June 2008 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by aswracing (Post 1333130)
It does, but it's not solid mounted to the frame, it has a heim link.

Basically, on a tuber, the engine bolts to the swingarm & rear wheel. That's all 1 unit. Then the frame & front end make up the other unit. Let me find a pic ...

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/pictures/rrmotorleft.jpg
My S2 race bike. The frame/front wheel assembly attaches to this assembly (through rubber isolators) at 3 places: the rubber donuts at the swingarm pivot on each side (you can see one of them in the pic) and also at the front of the front head (I make a special billet mount for this attachment point).

So the frame/front end assembly "floats" on the engine/rear end assembly through the 3 rubber mounts. To keep it from torsionally twisting, there are 3 heim links: one at the back, that sits on top of the swingarm mounting block, another at the top, that sits in between the cylinders, and one at the front, that connects near the oil filter pad. These heims allow the two main assemblies to move independently in the vertical plane but not in the horizontal plane. So the engine can vibrate up and down, but not sideways, and the wheels always point the same direction.

Seems like a good system, eric buell has some good ideas, to get that system working. curious if this is the first bike to do this

I think that's a good idea. I had my 100" in an S3 chassis for awhile. It banged on the frame. And it's only a quarter inch taller than stock. You'd have to do a lot of hacking to get anything bigger into a tuber.

I think thats getting from the reason i wanted to put it in a buell. not to hack the frame up. So a sportster it is. now i need to find a roller, i found a 89 roller which i think i might grab, its tough becuase im not sure the order to do this build, Im thinkin i should get the motor to nrhs first for the lower end work, and head work, then buy and build the chassis. becuase if money gets tough(not that its not now) ill just throw the motor in my bike.

Drag racers mess with this a lot, trying to get a perfect balance between traction (shorter) and keeping the front end down (longer). Most guys with Buell chassis' end up at around 10" of stretch. On the XL chassis I think you can get away with a little less since it's not so wheelie prone. You can find a thousand opinions on this though.

since ill race this bike on the weekends, ill need some stretch, this motor is going to turn this bike into a wheely machine. which isnt a bad thing. but not at the startin line.or anywhere on the track

I'd run a little less, like 11.25 to 11.5:1 with 643's on a pump gas street bike. I run 643's in a couple of my street bikes, and that's where I've found they want to be. Even there I have to be careful about top gear roll ons, they'll rattle if I ask it to pull from too low of an rpm. I took one down to 10.5:1 and it's too soft. I wouldn't go below 11:1. We run 13.5 to 14:1 with 643's in the race bikes. 643's are great cams, they can make a mountain of power and yet they're not so hard on the valvetrain that you can't run'em on the street.

Okay this is great info, first hand experience from u is priceless. I guess ill just have to weigh my options. ive found my bike now wants to ping on the street more then at the track(i kow this motor will be a lot different). so running higher octane at the track wouldnt do much, id need it more on the street, which isnt cost effective. id be better off running less compression and making it a little softer for street riding. What would i want if i was gonna run nitrious for track use?

oh and do u think 15 degree is a good choice? what about 30's. oh and i have zippers 99" aluminum iron lined cylinders, whats ur take on them. Should i keep them or get iron cylinders?

thanks again aaron. great help

jmr1283 29th June 2008 19:51

just bought a 89 sportster roller aaron. now the fun starts.
I wonder how it would effect the ride if i put this in. http://www.simonscompetition.com/ind...es/Page749.htm
i think it wouldnt be bad. itll make it a lot easier to work on the motor.
It looks like it doesnt raise the back bone to much, but it seems to round it up by the seat, which is the place that would be tight.
this is the bike 200234334293 ebay #

aswracing 30th June 2008 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr1283 (Post 1333188)
What would i want if i was gonna run nitrious for track use?

Small shots of nitrous, say 50hp and less, for relatively short periods of time, like drag racing, don't really require a reduction in compression. Just make sure it's jetted rich enough and you take out some timing. There are ignitions available that will retard the timing when you're on the button.

Quote:

oh and do u think 15 degree is a good choice? what about 30's.
What you're trading off with 15 degree versus 30 degree is squish area vs. dome height. To get enough squish area at 30 degrees to make a real good chamber, you have to raise the dome height a lot. Well, that tends to raise compression. So most of the time, we do 30 degree on race motors and 15 on street motors.

The caveat here is that many aftermarket heads have a fair bit more volume. And you're going for 11 to 11.5:1 anyway. So you may well be able to get a 30 degree in there at a streetable CR and with a good surface area. Depends on the heads.

Personally, I would cut them at 15 and make the measurements and run the numbers and then decide.

Quote:

oh and i have zippers 99" aluminum iron lined cylinders, whats ur take on them. Should i keep them or get iron cylinders?
That's an excellent cylinder, I've used them on multiple builds (Axtell sells the same casting, but they do the machine work and put their name on it). I'd run'em. If you were doing a full-on race motor then yeah, a full cast iron would be better. But that cylinder will work fine on a street bike.


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