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-   -   Sportster Crankcase Pressure / Engine Breathing / Wetsumping and Mods (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073932)

dieselvette 9th August 2019 01:55

Just to clarify a few things. Immediately after shutdown, I drained the bag and removed the oil pump. This process did not take more than 5-10 minutes before I was taking the feed line off the pump (from the tank). In fact by the time I was wrestling the pump around to clear the frame, the exhaust was still hot enough to singe arm hairs. Now, I had not removed the oil filter yet so I suppose it is conceivable that somehow drained into the sump. So i'll go and see how much is left in the filter when I take it off.

When I dropped the pump, there was very little mess.

How does oil get from the cam chest into the sump on a motor with no oil tank or pump?

What im hearing is that of all the oil that could possibly fall into the sump after shutdown (but not from the tank or through the pump) this could amount to 10oz or more.

Hippysmack 9th August 2019 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcatt (Post 5768498)
With the tank vented back to the cam chest you can be pumping oil back to the tank just to have it flow back into the engine thru the vent line.

That may be a stretch but in that case it would be the umbrellas not functioning properly.
Lots of oil tank puking to follow.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 60Gunner (Post 5768516)
Yeah, I realized that when I read it again. A pressure relief at about 30psi would be ideal.

You already have a pressure relief. Actually you have 3 of them.
2 piston squirters and a #2 cam gear squirter from the oil feed galley.
Those are feed pressure reliefs.
Have you checked the feed psi to verify you have high pressure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60Gunner (Post 5768644)
I don't think much oil ever travels in this line. It seemed dry to me when I pulled it off the cover. Just an after the fact observation now that I think about it a month later.

It should only be mist at best unless the breather(s) aren't working or the return line is crimped.
No convection there could build up pressure.


Quote:

Originally Posted by bustert (Post 5768641)
yep, the crown is good, found some bottled in 1979.
getting back to the ironhead oiling schematic, those arrows are not oil being pushed up the wall, just depicting oil sling, probably mostly from pin exit.

Yep, 79 would be good about now. :D
:hmmm Those arrows are coming from the sump, not to it. :confused:

dieselvette 9th August 2019 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60Gunner (Post 5768644)
I don't think much oil ever travels in this line. It seemed dry to me when I pulled it off the cover. Just an after the fact observation now that I think about it a month later.

Of course, there should never be oil in this line. Unless the tank was so full that it ran into the port which is pretty high up against the top. Definitely not the case here.

I suppose it's possible that something is broken inside the tank to allow oil to get in it. I don't think that's the case here either, but in the interest of being thorough I am going to fill the oil tank to 1/2 on the dipstick, before connecting the vent line to the cam chest, and make sure no oil comes out of it. Then I can also watch for drainage through the new oil pump while I'm working on the other stuff.

Tomcatt 9th August 2019 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippysmack (Post 5768653)
That may be a stretch but in that case it would be the umbrellas not functioning properly.
Lots of oil tank puking to follow.

It's been posted many times the tank vent can't be left open (vented to atmosphere) because it will "gush" oil and we also can't tee into it because of the oil it carries. Now it's "a stretch" to say it could carry oil into the cam chest?

Hippysmack 9th August 2019 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselvette (Post 5768652)
Just to clarify a few things. Immediately after shutdown, I drained the bag and removed the oil pump. This process did not take more than 5-10 minutes before I was taking the feed line off the pump (from the tank). In fact by the time I was wrestling the pump around to clear the frame, the exhaust was still hot enough to singe arm hairs. Now, I had not removed the oil filter yet so I suppose it is conceivable that somehow drained into the sump. So i'll go and see how much is left in the filter when I take it off.

When I dropped the pump, there was very little mess.

How does oil get from the cam chest into the sump on a motor with no oil tank or pump?

What im hearing is that of all the oil that could possibly fall into the sump after shutdown (but not from the tank or through the pump) this could amount to 10oz or more.

98+ doesn't have any drains per say from the cam chest to the sump.
I was just pondering on the places oil could gather from after shutdown.
I didn't realize how fast the parts were removed.
You shouldn't have much oil in the cam chest.
But if you did and with the pump connected, remember the cam chest port in the front of the pump drops down into the same gears from the sump.
But I'd think it take a while to seep back thru the teeth into the sump drain passage.
If you goose the throttle any before shutting it off, that could be a sudden spurt in the sump that didn't get scavenged also.
But there is a lot of oil actually on the moving parts (good thing) when you shut the engine down.
I've never tried to measure it but 10 oz. doesn't sound too out of mind.
I don't ever remember removing my cylinders without finding 10 oz. or more in the sump.
But I usually had the tank / pump inline at the time and mostly already cooled down.
My check ball does leak thru also.
Makes you wonder about checking the actual oil level and adding oil slowly while doing an oil change instead of just throwing in what the FSM recommends?

If your oil filter has an anti drainback (brand/type dependent) , it shouldn't lose any oil back to the pump if it's working properly upon the engine sitting.

Hippysmack 9th August 2019 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcatt (Post 5768660)
It's been posted many times the tank vent can't be left open (vented to atmosphere) because it will "gush" oil and we also can't tee into it because of the oil it carries. Now it's "a stretch" to say it could carry oil into the cam chest?

No I was trying to say it'd be a stretch if the oil recycled by itself in the tank without other signs.
But if that were the case, it'd seem very obvious by leaking out the cap or blowing it off.
With the 1/4" vent line and the position of the vent holes in the plastic tank and the fact that the vent inlet is so close to the top of the tank,
Either the perfect level of 'almost truly full' is happening but over that would pop the cap.
Or a condition where the oil level is higher than the vent tube inside is enough to leak or blow the cap would be so close it would be hard to not have more than just recirculating oil.
http://sportsterpedia.com/lib/exe/fe..._cootertwo.jpg

http://sportsterpedia.com/lib/exe/fe..._cootertwo.jpg

See what I mean?
The vent height is just a CH below the top of the tank.
Deimus was able to get oil sloshed into his tank vent upon a nose dive.
But the dipstick line doesn't go that far up.
And you can't get more oil into the tank than you have in the combined tank, engine and peripherals.
His tank breather was somehow allowing oil to pull up that far or he had too much oil in the system.

rocketmangb 9th August 2019 03:05

Breather Bolts
 
WOW !
I looked at a stock breather bolt and the hole appears to be about .025 !

Hippysmack 9th August 2019 03:08

What year bolt?
I meant to measure mine but haven't yet.

rocketmangb 9th August 2019 03:09

2006 Hippy

Hippysmack 9th August 2019 03:11

That must be this side?
A/C side:
Per Folkie, this one is 5/16"
http://sportsterpedia.com/lib/exe/fe..._by_folkie.jpg

Engine side:
We've got this side at 1/16"
http://sportsterpedia.com/lib/exe/fe..._by_folkie.jpg


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