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-   -   Ironhead 77-78 OEM exhaust baffle removal (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071532)

DirtyCory 28th October 2018 21:24

77-78 OEM exhaust baffle removal
 
So I wanna gut the insides of my OEM 77-78 cannon sized muffler. It's too restrictive and sounds ridiculous.

Not sure how to go about this, never done it and don't wanna mess up the outside of it in the process.

Here are some photos of it and what is the best way to go about this.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...psvhdsvblm.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...pshiknwtzt.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...psorxglwpn.jpg

60weight 28th October 2018 21:36

Rather than destroying this nice oem muffler,why not use a set of drag pipes
till Shes broken in? (Your new engine build)
Id say fill up the beer mug and relax.

Ferrous Head 28th October 2018 22:16

It's not just that it's restrictive and sounds like krap - it's heavy and ugly.
Go to your nearest exhaust place. ask them to make a two into one collector for you. Get them to neck it down to 2 inches for you. You can now select a muffler that looks good and works better. I ran the spiral core Hot Dogs for years.But there are plenty of nice chrome aftermarket mufflers that you can pick from.

brucstoudt 28th October 2018 22:20

see if you can find a hole saw to fit inside there.

rejeanprimeau 28th October 2018 23:29

I modified this 2 into one. You have to cut the welds at the front. Then you can slide the whole baffle out. You still have to cut the three spot weld at the end. To keep simple, be ready to paint the whole reassembly black or send to be rechrome; I just paint the new front welds and pipes with aluminum paint and cover the modification with the heat cover. At the back, couple of screw to hold it. You will see, the holes in the baffle are on the small side.

DirtyCory 29th October 2018 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60weight (Post 5709648)
Rather than destroying this nice oem muffler,why not use a set of drag pipes
till Shes broken in? (Your new engine build)
Id say fill up the beer mug and relax.

I really don't like the looks of common drag pipes. I like the look of this OEM exhaust better. Now XLR drags, that would be a different story, nice perfect curves and the look you can't beat. But they are hard to find and expensive when you do.

While I agree about not messing with obsolete OEM parts unnecessarily, these mufflers are cheap and many available on eBay.

I'll get another one and put it on the shelf so I got it.

Engine is broke in. I had 1000 miles on it before I tore it apart 4 years ago. 400 miles on it today.

rg500 29th October 2018 10:12

https://external.fqlf1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...BVkBWtbGu6VILq

Here you can see where I cut my pipe. I have removed the original silencer and replaced it with an 2,5" perforeted tub 12" long without packing, The bike run great and the sound is really nice.

mikethebike61 1st November 2018 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60weight (Post 5709648)
Rather than destroying this nice oem muffler,why not use a set of drag pipes
till Shes broken in? (Your new engine build)
Id say fill up the beer mug and relax.

Dead on the correct answer.....

Scott 1st November 2018 11:56

Repro XLR pipes on eBay for $200:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Spor...8:pf:0&vxp=mtr

ryder rick 1st November 2018 18:01

Straight pipes are not the answer for the street. No matter how bitchen they sound or how nostalgic or "correct" they appear.

Straight pipes suck!

Ideally a 2:1 pipe should terminate in a Venturi that leads to a megaphone. The Venturi enhances the scavenging effect and the megaphone allows the gasses to gradually slow down without getting in the way of the next pulse and also works as a check valve restricting reversion. A pressure wave will not travel backwards in a megaphone because it gets squished down.

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm hard headed

Bob F 1st November 2018 18:13

Quote:

Straight pipes suck!
+1 Kill mid-range power.

Chuckthebeatertruck 1st November 2018 22:06

Cory, if you want XLR pipes, you don't have to spend real money. Corso has been repopping them for years. https://www.thegasbox.com/parts/1958...raight-exhaust

Gas box is now their distributor. I just called Corso last week to get some stuff for the '46 -- they'll set you up if you want to go that route. Get the raw headers -- they'll set you back $110 with shipping and paint them to match your taste. The rustoleum high heat bbq and stove paint works surprisingly well and doesn't require the futzing around of some other high heat paints. I've been using it on headers for two years now and I don't exactly treat my bikes nicely as you know.

As for gutting the current can -- no problem. Been there, done that. You can cut the spot welds as pointed out; or you can simply remove the end baffle by carefully cutting around the ID of the pipe. As mentioned a bi-metal hole saw works and can be purchased on the cheap at Harbor Freight if this is a one time use. You'll find the inside of the can to be filled with "stringy" packing material. This is what you're "feeling." You can pull that crap out and then return the end cap and tube. Weld it up with wet towel wrapped around the outside of the muffler to avoid destroying the chrome. . . .and you'll have a tinny sound -- not terrible, but not too great either. Sort of half way to a straight pipe. The big difference is that when you're not deep into the throttle and just cruising along, they are actually pretty quiet. When you open them up . . .well, then they get loud.

How do I know . . .well, I run the same type of set up on the thumper and on the winter bike. Couldn't stand how restricted the mufflers were but also couldn't abide by straights. So, gutted can with perforated tube and end caps. You know, like 95% of automotive "mufflers." Bike mufflers tend to be like "glass packs" -- why I'm still not sure (cue a keyboard cowboy to school us all on muffler design).

Sure, all the theory stuff pointed out on this thread is right -- but that ain't what you're asking, is it?

The easiest solution, however, is to buy a $50 universal dunstall muffler like the el cheapo Emgo ones. They've got minimal packing and a pretty decent tone. They do rust pretty quickly, however.

brucstoudt 1st November 2018 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 5710270)

i'm tempted to try these. I've had a Corso set and one from the new supplier.first set didn't fit good,second set was worse.the flat spot for the frame clearance on the front pipe doesn't even line up with the frame.

Chuckthebeatertruck 1st November 2018 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucstoudt (Post 5710351)
i'm tempted to try these. I've had a Corso set and one from the new supplier.first set didn't fit good,second set was worse.the flat spot for the frame clearance on the front pipe doesn't even line up with the frame.

Bruce -- I'll bet those ARE corso repops. Wooster is about 40 miles from Corso's shop in Kent and Corso makes pipes for more people than you might imagine.

Speaking of which . . .

Did you call and tell them about the pipes? I'd be pretty surprised if they wouldn't have corrected the problem for you and updated their patterns.

brucstoudt 1st November 2018 22:43

thanks for that geography info Chuck.he could be reselling them and inflating the price.i didn't call about the alignment.bigger problems,''head'' aches we'll call them.

Scott 2nd November 2018 02:49

Who makes a decent IH 2 into 1 pipe or complete exhaust system? I知 just compiling my shopping list for now.

brucstoudt 2nd November 2018 22:00

check www.sportyparts.com. I've read here that has 2 into 1.

DirtyHarry68 2nd November 2018 23:11

77-78 OEM exhaust baffle removal
 
Ignore, didn稚 read properly

rejeanprimeau 3rd November 2018 15:01

The original poster like the look of the 77 2 into 1 and everybody shoot straight pipe at him.

This thread turn into another save the OEM steel. I'm guilty of gutting one. Those pipes were so underperformer, even the dealer trow them in the scrap bin then. 5 years ago I paid 50$ ship to Canada.

The baffle are attached to the two pipes that come out in front of the chamber, that why you need to cut those weld to be able to get it out. The back is being hold with three spot weld.

I'm a welder by trade, easy for me with a drill and a grinders to pull the baffle out. You'll see about 40 holes drill 1/16" in the back part of the baffle. The hole you can see at the exterior part are correct. I've drill the 1/16" hole a 1/4 of an inch and the red neck dyno flattened; meaning it was the right size; not too much not too little. Good torque and nice sound.

I have an 1250 with good heads and SE 536 cams.

Chuckthebeatertruck 5th November 2018 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 5710387)
Who makes a decent IH 2 into 1 pipe or complete exhaust system? I知 just compiling my shopping list for now.

The following only applies to 900s. I have zero clue what's out there for later bikes.


Right now; no one is making a correct 2:1 pipe for these early bikes.

Both V-twin and Dennis Corso ran out of repops three or four years ago for the 900s and aren't planning on making any more.

Paughco did offer one; not sure if they still do. Fit was "eh" according to several people.

I never had one of the Paughco systems in my hands.

I begged, borrowed and stole to get an original 2:1 header.

Personally, because you're planning a "race" bike; I'd roll my own out of some cheap drag pipes and go for interconnected duals.

The reason is simple: you'll get what you're after without having to find what's becoming a scarce item.

The rear pipe and the junction get darn hot on the 2:1 system. In particular, if you get any oil drips from chain lube . . .they seem to find their way right to the y junction.

That said, I adore my 2:1 . . . mostly because you just never see a stock system on an old ironhead.

Just keep in mind that if you can find an OEM unit for under $200 -- unless it's totally rusted through, buy it.

Scott 5th November 2018 18:39

Thanks for the info, Chuck. Sportyparts has a performance oriented (claimed) 2 into 1 that looks like it might be too low for right turns. They also have an equally pricey XLCH repop 2 into 1 high pipe, which would work great if it has any performance advantage. Has anyone tried the repop exhaust?

Chuckthebeatertruck 5th November 2018 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 5710941)
Thanks for the info, Chuck. Sportyparts has a performance oriented (claimed) 2 into 1 that looks like it might be too low for right turns. They also have an equally pricey XLCH repop 2 into 1 high pipe, which would work great if it has any performance advantage. Has anyone tried the repop exhaust?

Note the "performance" pipe is for '71 and up . . .

I wouldn't try to make a high pipe work on a track.

Scott 5th November 2018 20:18

Just out of curiosity, why avoid high pipes on race bikes? My goal is to keep the exhaust off the ground in turns. I imagine this was the thinking behind the XR750 high pipes, though I知 not building a flat tracker and have to keep both the left and right sides off the pavement. I知 no welder, but I think I値l have to build my own. I can tack with my MIG and let a professional do the final welding.

Chuckthebeatertruck 5th November 2018 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 5710963)
Just out of curiosity, why avoid high pipes on race bikes? My goal is to keep the exhaust off the ground in turns. I imagine this was the thinking behind the XR750 high pipes, though I知 not building a flat tracker and have to keep both the left and right sides off the pavement. I知 no welder, but I think I値l have to build my own. I can tack with my MIG and let a professional do the final welding.


Take a long look at how that pipe fits. Think about these three things when you're really getting into the loud handle:

1) You're crawling around the bike trying to keep your inner thigh and nads off the pipe. Run a big old carb and now you've got lots of stuff to move around as you're trying to snap into a corner.

2) You need something rigid to mount the muffler to -- the pipes are just a tight press fit. So, you need some type of rigid strut and the clamps to make it all work. Again -- weight.

3) Tight bends and short dump out . . .which we know aren't condusive to top end power. Mid-range, yes. But, if you're on tracks where you need to wind it out . . .

Sure, they can work fine -- but why spend the $$ for a very particular system when there are other combos that do the deed well, are cheaper, and won't fry your nuggets :wonderlan

I'll have to snap some photos for you of my 59H with the stock 2:1. You'll see a VERY specific wear mark on the right side of my tire, the right muffler can, and the right peg. You literally can't lean the bike any further over . . . or the tire slip angle is gone. If I can do that running a stock 2:1 can on street tires -- I'm betting you'll be just fine on the track.

To be clear -- I think the 2:1 high pipe is one of the most beautiful exhausts HD produced . . . I just wouldn't race it on a track.

Scott 5th November 2018 21:12

Thanks for the info. Is this the type of pipe on your '59?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Harley...UAAOSwN3Nb3fD7

Chuckthebeatertruck 5th November 2018 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott (Post 5710976)
Thanks for the info. Is this the type of pipe on your '59?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Harley...UAAOSwN3Nb3fD7

Yes.

Notice the bluing on the rear pipe and at the y junction? Imagine how HOT that would be on the high pipe in a race :p

And, to be honest, I'm watching that auction now. I normally hate MachIV -- but these pipes are getting harder to find. If it stays at a sane price, it might be hanging in my rafters shortly.

ryder rick 7th November 2018 14:59

That ebay pipe doesnt have a very nice merge.

It leaves lots of power on the table.

Chuckthebeatertruck 7th November 2018 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryder rick (Post 5711204)
That ebay pipe doesnt have a very nice merge.

Well, that's probably because it wasn't designed to have a "very nice merge" -- it was designed more than 60 years ago to fit the bike and easily mount up a real muffler.

You know, a design from a time when people actually still used bikes for transportation and cops actually gave you noise tickets or the neighbors would "gently" tell you to shut it up. A time when the interstate was just coming into being and "fast" meant 55-60 mph. A time when common accessories included windshields, hard saddle bags, and buddy seats -- on a SPORTSTER for gods sake. Don't they know only hells angels and stop light drag racers ride sportsters?

You know, 60 years ago when the advertising literature showed a young man in a polo shirt, chinos, and loafers enjoying his sporty in the countryside with his fully made up, "prim and proper" lady friend on the back holding a picnic basket.

Yeah, the 2:1 leaves so much power on the table you can "only" get the bike up to an honest 105 or so mph. Terrible, terrible performance for 60 years ago when your saddle bags are filled with groceries.

So, what's a guy to do if he wants to go fast in 1960, pick up a date, and still be able to live in a neighborhood?

A glance at the accessory catalog gives you the answer: interconnected duals :doh


Sorry, Rick, I couldn't resist.

ryder rick 7th November 2018 20:20

But did you leave scars in its flanks with your spurs to reach that magical 105mph, or did you just roll it on? :laugh

brianbbs67 8th November 2018 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckthebeatertruck (Post 5710986)
Yes.

Notice the bluing on the rear pipe and at the y junction? Imagine how HOT that would be on the high pipe in a race :p

And, to be honest, I'm watching that auction now. I normally hate MachIV -- but these pipes are getting harder to find. If it stays at a sane price, it might be hanging in my rafters shortly.

That's one worth watching. I hear ya about MIV but parts are parts. I'd bet ot escalates in about 3 days. But you never know and that guy doesn't care what it sells for as long as it sells...

DirtyCory 8th November 2018 03:17

What's wrong with that exhaust? If my memory serves, when Chevelle was doing all of his dyno testing with different cams and exhaust, he got some of the best power with them. Maybe he will see this and chime in and confirm.

DirtyCory 18th May 2019 06:20

Well it been a while but I ended up using some scrap exhaust pipes and peices of junk I have laying around and just made a simple 2 into 1 that attaches to the OEM header.

Just got it tacked together right now, so don't know how it's going to act but it sure does sound good. Im sure it will be a little better than just running the open header alone. And after it's chromed, if I like it, it will look nice too.

https://i1203.photobucket.com/albums...pslxzvfavu.jpg

https://i1203.photobucket.com/albums...pso7y9jinw.jpg

DirtyCory 18th May 2019 06:22

Sorry don't know what the hell happen with picture size. Never had that happen before

ryder rick 18th May 2019 18:12

It needs a cone or muffler to block/attenuate the reversion wave.

brucstoudt 19th May 2019 21:52

how does it run? it look's a bit restrictive at the merge.

Moon Wolf 19th May 2019 22:20

Yep, straight pipes suck. If you want your bike to run like crap, especially mid-range, that's the way to go.

Forum member Natez just modified that same muffler on his 78. Sounds and runs great. Message him and ask how he did it.

I have several NOS mufflers if you want to buy one to experiment on for fifty bucks plus shipping

ryder rick 20th May 2019 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucstoudt (Post 5749393)
how does it run? it look's a bit restrictive at the merge.

A venturi at the merge has proven to be beneficial, look at a ThunderHeader or a SuperTrapp.
The cross section area of the merge is usually slightly larger than the primary tubes,

DirtyCory 2nd June 2019 20:01

I ended up cutting off 14 inches to get the overall length to 42 inches.

Before I made this, I just had the open headers that sounded great but they did lack in performance at any speed below 4000 rpms. We all know that.

The bike would stumble at wide open throttle at anything less than 4000. Anything above 4000 it would just scream! Since I put on this 2 into 1, now the stumble is gone. I can crack WOT anytime and it just screams.

It seems to run very good and definitely an improvement from what I had. A bit restrictive? Maybe, that was kind of the point.

I'm no exhaust expert, or an expert at all as far as that goes, but I know improvement when I feel it. When your motor is happy, it's happy.

Think I'm gonna run with this for now and experiment with some more set ups.

Moon, I look for a thread and messaged natez with no response. You have a link?

brucstoudt 2nd June 2019 22:32

thanks for the update.i have a suggestion if you are going to try variations.where the 2 pipes merge into the single.instead of stuffing the 2 into the single try having them fit over the outside of the single pipe more like a collector.

DirtyCory 10th June 2019 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucstoudt (Post 5752750)
thanks for the update.i have a suggestion if you are going to try variations.where the 2 pipes merge into the single.instead of stuffing the 2 into the single try having them fit over the outside of the single pipe more like a collector.

I didn't stuff anything inside either end. The 2 com down to 1.75 in ID and butts up to 1.75 ID

I must have got lucky when I put this together. This sum bitch made huge difference. It a running harder than it ever has.

It's running so good the clutch won't hold when I really get on it.
I took the clutch apart again, all components only have about 2000 miles on them. OEM Steels are still flat and look great. Barnet frictions still look good too. NOS set of springs still taller than spec. And adjustment is just the way it should be. Just won't won't hold.

This fly by night hack job works good


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