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-   -   Ironhead 1982 Ironhead Transmission Removal (W/ Pics) (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2023217)

jdearmitt 26th May 2017 02:24

1982 Ironhead Transmission Removal (W/ Pics)
 
Okay all,

So tonight I decided to dive in head first in removing my suspected bad transmission in my '82 1000cc. As discussed in my other thread

http://xlforum.net/forums/s....php?t=2022825

everything with my 2nd gear problem is leading me to open this thing up. Since this is my first endeavor into any transmission, I decided I would try and document my steps with pictures. Not only to help myself, but possibly someone who needs to do this next.

So without further ado, here come the pictures:

Primary cover

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...ry%20Cover.jpg

This is the first thing to tackle.. Remove this to expose the primary chain/drive. Also, here is a picture of the clutch cable assembly inside the primary cover for reference on reassembly.

Clutch Cable Assembly

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...ch%20Cable.jpg

And now the primary drive.

Primary Drive

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...TO%20Drive.jpg

This is what you will see after the cover is removed. My next step was to remove the chain sprocket cover, remove the chain master link, and work on the chain sprocket.

Chain Sprocket

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...0/Sprocket.jpg

*Note: This picture was taken after I folded the lock washer tabs up and removed the nut.

The sprocket nut needs removed (1 1/4" Socket) and the sprocket needs pulled off with a gear puller (at least mine does). Now back to work on the primary drive..

Front Drive Gear Nut

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...rive%20Nut.jpg

The nut circled in red uses a 1 1/4" socket. My Dewalt 3/8" drive impact just didn't have enough to get this loose so I used a piece of flat stock wedged between the front and rear gears and a breaker bars to loosen it and then used the impact to run it off.

My next step is to remove the clutch assembly.

Clutch Assembly

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...h%20Basket.jpg

Now from what I have read, this need compressed with a homemade tool for removal. This is what I have set up so far:

Clutch Removal Rig

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...val%20Tool.jpg

Some things I have noticed so far during tear down, someone has previously been in here before. I was told by the PO that the transmission main shaft had been replaced and here are the signs I have seen so far..

New Transmission Bearing Cup Under Chain Sprocket

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...%20Bearing.jpg

Transmission Trap Door Safety Wire

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u...ety%20Wire.jpg

I do not believe this is stock from reading through others transmission tear downs??

This is how far I have got tonight so now onto the questions. Where should I place the spacer at to press on the clutch to compress it with my homemade tool? Do I need a spacer between the flat stock and the countersunk hole in the center of the clutch assembly? If so, how much pressure should I expect when tightening this down? I do not want to force and break something..

Thanks in advance for everyone who chimes in! More to come after the holiday weekend :cheers

doodah man 26th May 2017 02:53

Really, all it has to do is make contact with the pressure plate so that you can remove the six nuts, i use a small block of wood between. Then as you release the tension on your compressor tool the clutch springs will relax and the release disc will fall out.

ericfreeman 26th May 2017 02:57

Your clutch tool needs a long bolt threaded through the flat bar to engage the dimple in the bearing spacer. It doesn't take much force to begin to compress the clutch springs: you need the tool to hold the flat plate in place when you remove the 6 nuts and then allow the springs to expand as you undo your tool's center bolt/rod.

Somebody's definitely been in there before as lockwiring the trapdoor bolts is not a factory setup.

Eric

IronMick 26th May 2017 02:58

Here is my home made clutch spring compressor. It uses some parts from a gear puller. Crank on the hex thing with a socket ...

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/r...pskreqzczq.jpg

8ball 26th May 2017 03:15

until a good friend gave me his spare compressing tool, i used my knee. ..i dont recommend it especially for assembly. btw very nice pic and documenting work. that eill save you a lot of headaches many of us caused ourselves

yoshi 26th May 2017 12:37

One observation from the first pic inside the primary is that the chain looks on the loose side, or had you slacked off the tensioner?

jdearmitt 27th May 2017 00:41

Thanks for the input so far everyone! I'm hoping taking my time and taking a lot of pictures will make this job go smooth. I will work on removing the clutch Monday evening and hopefully pull the trans then. I'm sure that's when I will be asking the real questions and for advice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi (Post 5545012)
One observation from the first pic inside the primary is that the chain looks on the loose side, or had you slacked off the tensioner?

Yes the tension was released to get the primary cover off. Thanks for the input!

jdearmitt 30th May 2017 01:40

Okay so I got to work some more on the bike tonight and here is my progress (at least I hope it's progress haha).

I picked up where I left off and needed to remove the clutch and chain sprocket. I used my homemade clutch compressing tool and got that apart. Then I used a wheel hub puller to pop the chain sprocket off.

Chain Sprocket Removed

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1492_1024.jpg

Clutch Plate and Springs Removed

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1490_1024.jpg

This reveled a 1 1/2" nut with tabbed lock washer to remove next. Once that was ran off with the impact, the primary drive gears and chain were slid off as one assembly. This made way to the transmission trap door and bolts to remove it.

Transmission Trap Door

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1491_1024.jpg

Next I cut the lock wire between the trap door bolts (PO must have added that feature) and removed the chain tensioner and spring so I could remove the four 1/2" trap door bolts and remove the transmission.

Transmission Removed

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1493_1024.jpg

This is what it looks like with the transmission out. (Note the 23 individual roller bearings that fall out when pulling the trans. This is normal but be sure to collet all of them for reassembly).

Now for the good stuff, the innards..

Transmission Assembly

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1495_1024.jpg

The next pic if for reference of gear alignment while the trans is in 2nd gear (my problem gear)

2nd Gear Teeth Alignment

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1513_1024.jpg

Small Chip on Counter Shaft Gear #2

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1499_1024.jpg

Shift Fork Close Up

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1503_1024.jpg

From my inspection, both shift forks showed minimal wear (by my judgement) and were not bent. Only one side, of one fork, had enough of a wear groove to catch a fingernail in.

Shifter Pawl Cam (Close Up of the 2nd Gear Lobe Area)

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1506_1024.jpg

Another Angle of the Cam

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1505_1024.jpg

Again, I do not believe there is a lot if any wear here but please feel free to correct me if I am overlooking something.

Counter Shaft #2 Dog Groves

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1498_1024.jpg

Counter Shaft #3 Dog Tabs

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1500_1024.jpg

Both the male and female dogs on counter shaft #2 and #3 look to be in healthy condition to me..

Surprise Find (Main Shaft #2 with an Andrews Part #

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/u..._1514_1024.jpg

So here is where I think I am so far.. The transmission looks to be in good condition with no major wear areas or destruction. I looked at both the MS and CS as well as all eight gears and shift forks carefully and did not see any smoking gun as to why I have a "slipping" feel while in 2nd gear (and yes I realize that gears do not slip haha).

I did run the trans through the gears by hand and it functioned as it should the best that I can tell. I did place it back in neutral and started measuring clearances between the gears and believe I may have a problem. I will list the measurement I took and then wait for the experts to enlighten me!

MS 3 - MS 2 ---> 0.046" Max Actually engaging slightly (probably about 0.020") on the minimum
MS 2 - MS 4 ---> 0.085" Max 0.038" Min
CS 1 - CS 3 ---> 0.030" Max Less than 0.010" Min
CS 3 - CS 2 ---> 0.0965" Max 0.049" Min

So a little explanation.. When I say "Max", it is with the shifter fork pushing the sliding gear as far away from the gear I a measuring in respect to by hand. When I say "Min", it is vise versa. Pushing the sliding gear and shifter fork as close to the gear I am measuring in respect to.

I do not know which is proper to do? Maybe the average of my "Max" and "Min"?

Also, I have bolded the two lines that overly concern me. The clearance when the gears are pushed by hand together on MS 3 - MS 2 are actually enough to begin engaging the dogs slightly. Not enough to hold under load because I can twist both ends of the MS and get them to pop apart. Still I wouldn't think it should be like that?

Lastly, my nearly 100 thousandths max gap between my favorite 2nd gear :frownthre: could this large gap be enough to allow the male dogs to "slip" under load in 2nd?

As always, I appreciate everyone's input to help me through this!

Thanks!

doodah man 30th May 2017 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdearmitt (Post 5546642)
I do not know which is proper to do? Maybe the average of my "Max" and "Min"?

The clearance when the gears are pushed by hand together on MS 3 - MS 2 are actually enough to begin engaging the dogs slightly. Not enough to hold under load because I can twist both ends of the MS and get them to pop apart. Still I wouldn't think it should be like that?

it is for this reason, when i checked the clearance on my gears i biased everything towards the trap door. if you have clearance at the tightest that the gears can get, then they will never touch when they are not supposed to.

ryder rick 30th May 2017 13:01

Replace both the 20 tooth gears with Andrews Products pieces.

Interesting that you have some AP parts in it already, but the two exploding gears were not replaced.

If that pic of the assembled trans is in neutral, you have some work to do regarding shifter fork selection.


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