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Old 21st August 2011
firemedic24 firemedic24 is offline
Flat Track Racer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 244
Sportster/Buell Model: 883
Sportster/Buell Year: 1989
Reputation: 3802
firemedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the roughfiremedic24 is a jewel in the rough

Originally Posted by GrumpyCoyote View Post
This is totally incorrect - to the point of misleading. All manufacturers must submit the helmet to DOT for testing. You want a label? You need to send your helmet in. See here for the actual regulations. Those pass/fails are from submitted helmets. That said - any manufacturer can counterfeit at DOT label, any many do.

DOT and/or Snell (or ECE/SHARP in the UK) is not a guarantee of survivability, it is however statistically significant in reducing injury and fatalities. This is not opinion, or anecdote - it's math.

As for the "if it's your time" crap - it's meaningless. Your anecdotal evidence is likewise, meaningless - sometime people die wearing helmets, yes - obviously, but that has absolutely no bearing on the math.

DOT/Snell helmets reduce the odds of injury and fatality - the science is very clear. What you believe does not change those facts.

For the record, I hate helmet laws, I wear what I want, and believe you should do the same - but I also hate pseudo-science, mis-information, and superstition. The facts are clear - DOT/Snell do what they claim - reduce the odds of injury.
Well at least we all can see how you got your name....

Here is a direct quote from the article you posted... which you must have misread: In other words, a motorcycle helmet manufacturer would have to submit a helmet model to testing to the following regulations to meet DOT standards and the right to place the DOT sticker on the back of the helmet.

This states the manufacturer (not the DOT) must submit the helmet to testing.
With the number of helmets that hit the market every year, the DOT simply can not test them all. This is not incorrect, crap, opinion,anecdote, mis-information,Pseudo-science, superstition, or mis-leading.- IT'S MATH.

Since we are posting articles here is one for you....

The US Department of Transportation (DOT), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), announced in 1972, a draft motorcycle helmet standard. The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 218 (FMVSS 218), which is commonly referred to as the "DOT" standard. The FMVSS 218 draft was taken almost directly from the 1971 American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standard Z90.1. The original NHTSA plan included a major revision in 1974, just prior to the standard going into effect.

ANSI revised the Z90.1 standard in 1973. The criteria from the earlier standard was developed using older methodology. ANSI felt the 1971 standard was too difficult and added complexity that would not necessarily lead to better helmets. NHTSA on the other hand, continued with the original 1971 ANSI criteria. Unfortunately, the planned 1974 revision to the FMVSS 218 standard was not made. In 1974, FMVSS 218 went into effect essentially unchanged from the original draft.

Beginning in 1974, motorcycle helmets were required to meet the minimum requirements established by FMVSS 218, the standard detailed guidelines and test criteria a helmet must pass to receive a "DOT" approval. Over the years, slight changes have been made to FMVSS 218. However, 28 years later the standard remains essentially unchanged from its original draft form. Currently NHTSA has studies underway to evaluate and consider changes to FMVSS 218.

DOT Approved Helmets
How can you tell a helmet is DOT approved? Typically a sticker on the rear of the helmet with the letters "DOT".

How does the DOT monitor compliance with FMVSS 218? Would you be surprised to learn it's based on the honor system? Yes, you read that correct. The government relies on the manufacturer's word that the helmet was tested and passed!

Does the government do any testing? Yes, they do very, very limited testing of helmets. How limited? In 2001, they tested 40 helmets. Under the honor system, we shouldn't have to test any helmets.

What if a helmet fails? They publish the data and rely on the manufacturer to bring the product into compliance. In 2001, 20% of the tested helmets failed the performance tests. Helmets manufactured by AFX, Fulmer, HJC, M2R, NEXL and THH. At a 20% failure rate, do you think there are others out there that might fail the performance test?

DOT FMVSS 218 Standard Summary: Developed 28 year ago. Very, very limited testing. Based on the honor system.

And what might you ask is a helmet that does not meet DOT standards? Lets say it all together now "A Novelty Helmet."

I will admit you are correct in saying that DOT(helmets that passed)/Snell helmets do reduce the odds of injury, and fatality. My post was not meant to say any helmet (novelty,DOT, or Snell) is better than the other. How many members on this site have stated they would never wear anything less than a DOT helmet? When unknowingly they might be doing just that. And, further more these same members will bash anyone who go lidless, or wears a novelty. My post was to inform members that just because it says it's DOT does not mean it is. And thank you Grumpy for posting that article which supports what I said.

Maybe my "if it's your time.." is crap and your math is correct. But no matter the ratio..for giggles lets say 1:10...if you're the 1 it still wont matter what is on your head or not. Cheers!

Last edited by firemedic24; 21st August 2011 at 23:24.. Reason: Spelling
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