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carb, hot engine, loss power, tuning, vacuum

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  #1  
Old 6th September 2021
Jfart Jfart is offline
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Default Help tuning cv40, needle, jets, and vacuum, and ignition timing

2002 sportster rigid frame 1200

Hammer 1275
N4 cams
Timing cup
Dyna 2000i
Dyna single fire coil
Dyna wires
10r12x plugs (cooler)
Pinion gear
Larger oil pump 2007
Cv40 velocity needle 45 and 185 jets
Screaming eagle CNC flat ported heads -.050
Hammer 2005 -.050 pushrods (total -.070)
Extra plate clutch kit

Bike is running good but after 30 min cruising up and down through gears engine seems to run hotter than normal. Power is lagging only when hot. When hot I tend to hear more top end noise. Little louder valve train and a few minor ticks but nothing that sounds serious. I feel like its a tuning issue. Changed plugs before 30 my ride today and will post pics of plugs after. Haven’t done throttle chops yet.

After the ride I noticed the vacuum hose was bent on angle
That could have been restricting. Would the vacuum line being partially restricted cause the bike to get hot while cruising through 2nd and 4th gears? This has bin fixed but haven’t been out since. If not The spark plug band makes me think the ignition timing needs to be retarded the slightest bit further than the 28* it’s at now. But maybe it’s fine. Take a look at the plugs ans let me know what you think.

Could the vacuum need to be adjusted? Maybe a washer on the needle. I get the basics but some details of washer placement and how to decide would be appreciated. Currently want to figure out why the sudden lack of power when bike gets hot. When I let it cool down it’s starts up and rides good again think it gets hot again

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Old 6th September 2021
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Old 6th September 2021
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What Petcock are you using?
-- Vacuum petcocks can fail to open sufficiently at sustained throttle, causing a lean condition. Blocked petcock filters can have the same effect.

New Vacuum Hose?
-- Old hoses can leak vacuum and the petcock vacuum valve is not fully opened, causing a lean condition under load.


In general, running lean heats up the engine, while running richer is cooler.

In general, running too advanced heats up the engine, while running less advanced is cooler.


But you are at the point of tuning where A GENERAL SENSE may not be sufficient - You really need to get some hard facts... It is not sufficient to use the words 'It SEEMS' this or that, you need to measure and report the actual facts.

Oil Temp Gauge reading?
Infrared Head Temp reading?
Compression Reading - When HOT?
Plug Chop Examine - When HOT?
-- Or read down the plug wall (Wedge)
Ignition Timing - Measured?
Fuel Flow thru carb, When HOT (Careful)?


(BTW, making new threads means it is hard for readers to check back in the thread to see what has been done previously - good or bad.)

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Last edited by IXL2Relax; 6th September 2021 at 16:16..
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Old 6th September 2021
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If overall timing was too advanced you would be seeing black specks on the porcelain that look like pepper.

Is your tank vent plugged up by any chance? You could verify if this is the issue by removing gas cap when it acts up and see if that fixes it. Just be careful to not splash gas everywhere. The tank vents out that small nipple under the right side of the tank, and that hose leads down below the frame or to a cannister. Make sure it's free of debris, You can blow into that vent line and you should feel pressure build up like blowing up a balloon as you compress the air in free space inside the tank
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Old 7th September 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
What Petcock are you using?
-- Vacuum petcocks can fail to open sufficiently at sustained throttle, causing a lean condition. Blocked petcock filters can have the same effect.

New Vacuum Hose?
-- Old hoses can leak vacuum and the petcock vacuum valve is not fully opened, causing a lean condition under load.


In general, running lean heats up the engine, while running richer is cooler.

In general, running too advanced heats up the engine, while running less advanced is cooler.


But you are at the point of tuning where A GENERAL SENSE may not be sufficient - You really need to get some hard facts... It is not sufficient to use the words 'It SEEMS' this or that, you need to measure and report the actual facts.

Oil Temp Gauge reading?
Infrared Head Temp reading?
Compression Reading - When HOT?
Plug Chop Examine - When HOT?
-- Or read down the plug wall (Wedge)
Ignition Timing - Measured?
Fuel Flow thru carb, When HOT (Careful)?


(BTW, making new threads means it is hard for readers to check back in the thread to see what has been done previously - good or bad.)

IXL _______ >>>> My Motorcycle Chronicles Are Here <<<<
For Sportster Tech Info:
Ride The Sportsterpedia - A Toll-Free XLForum Information Highway!
Is it better to go back to my original thread and continue there? I can just Cary the question to that thread? Let me know, I’m open to whatever. I’m not sure what the most appropriate way is.

1. My petcock is the original petcock with vacuum.

2 new vacuum hoses were installed somewhat recently. Since April.

3. Factual makes sense. I’ll do my best to be specific.


Factual information today.

With bike at idle this morning I unplugged the vacuum hose from the T fitting at carb. When I unplug the idle speeds up. When plug back in the idle normalizes.

I double checked ignition module Timing timing. With the dyna 2000i, front cylinder TDC using timing mark centered. I turn module clockwise until light is on, turn counter clockwise until light turns off. Marked module plate and surrounding then turn .030” counter clockwise. Used caliper for measurement reference.

I’ll take it out in a little and try to get some temp measurements.
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Old 7th September 2021
Jfart Jfart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
If overall timing was too advanced you would be seeing black specks on the porcelain that look like pepper.

Is your tank vent plugged up by any chance? You could verify if this is the issue by removing gas cap when it acts up and see if that fixes it. Just be careful to not splash gas everywhere. The tank vents out that small nipple under the right side of the tank, and that hose leads down below the frame or to a cannister. Make sure it's free of debris, You can blow into that vent line and you should feel pressure build up like blowing up a balloon as you compress the air in free space inside the tank
How do those plugs look to you? Do the look lean?

1. After reading this post I checked the plugs and no specks stand out. Grabbed a jewelers microscope and I could see 3 small black specks on the porcelain. Not Diamond shaped though. Specks we’re random in shape.

2. I checked the fuel vent both directions. It’s clean from the hose under seat up through the tank when I blow through it. When I open fuel vent line anterior to oil tank and blow I do the the resistance but it still flows slowly.

My rubber elbow is old and I’ve been waiting for a new one from HD for two months. No ETA as of Saturday.

Why does the vent hose vent into the frame? Is that necessary?
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We are here now - so we'll move forward - but may have some questions of what went before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfart View Post
1. My petcock is the original petcock with vacuum.
2 new vacuum hoses were installed somewhat recently. Since April.

With bike at idle this morning I unplugged the vacuum hose from the T fitting at carb. When I unplug the idle speeds up. When plug back in the idle normalizes.
Just removing the hose from the Tee causes three changes - (1) It denies vacuum to the petcock to keep the fuel valve open - (2) It also allows more air into the intake manifold from the rear of the carb - (3) It denies vacuum to the VOES switch which will cause the ignition module to choose the less advanced curve (where normally it would be on the more advanced curve).

Did you plug the Tee while having the hose off? That would prevent affect #2 & #3...

Removing the vacuum from the petcock will cause the fuel valve to close, but the fuel in the carb float bowl will continue to supply fuel to the engine for a little while (at idle, 1-2 minutes, perhaps).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfart View Post
I double checked ignition module Timing timing. With the dyna 2000i, front cylinder TDC using timing mark centered. I turn module clockwise until light is on, turn counter clockwise until light turns off. Marked module plate and surrounding then turn .030” counter clockwise. Used caliper for measurement reference.
Is this a new 2000i module or used? What switch settings do you have selected (and their meaning)?

Is the performance degredation when HOT clearly noticeable with describable symptoms or simply a feeling that something isn't right?

If the performance change is clearly noticeable, you could try spraying some COLD SPRAY onto the ignition module to see if cooling it down will change the performance. Heat issues with nosecone ignitions do appear on the forum quite regularly.

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Ride The Sportsterpedia - A Toll-Free XLForum Information Highway!
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  #8  
Old 7th September 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
We are here now - so we'll move forward - but may have some questions of what went before...



Just removing the hose from the Tee causes three changes - (1) It denies vacuum to the petcock to keep the fuel valve open - (2) It also allows more air into the intake manifold from the rear of the carb - (3) It denies vacuum to the VOES switch which will cause the ignition module to choose the less advanced curve (where normally it would be on the more advanced curve).

Did you plug the Tee while having the hose off? That would prevent affect #2 & #3...

Removing the vacuum from the petcock will cause the fuel valve to close, but the fuel in the carb float bowl will continue to supply fuel to the engine for a little while (at idle, 1-2 minutes, perhaps).




Is this a new 2000i module or used? What switch settings do you have selected (and their meaning)?

Is the performance degredation when HOT clearly noticeable with describable symptoms or simply a feeling that something isn't right?

If the performance change is clearly noticeable, you could try spraying some COLD SPRAY onto the ignition module to see if cooling it down will change the performance. Heat issues with nosecone ignitions do appear on the forum quite regularly.

IXL _______ >>>> My Motorcycle Chronicles Are Here <<<<
For Sportster Tech Info:
Ride The Sportsterpedia - A Toll-Free XLForum Information Highway!
A. I took the bike out to warm it and and get a few temps. While I was out an electric issue presented. Thought a turn signal bulb went bad but it ended up tracking down the short to a 8-place Deutsch connector that’s zip ties to the frame where the gas tank bolts too. These wires and part or the connector have a mesh like insulation around them. The clip was clipped together on both sides of the clip but the short had still happened within the connector.

My bike is a 02 but my service manual is for 03. If my harness is the same as the service manual these are in locked with that short.

1 the module ground bk
2 12cdv accessory/circuit breaker o/w
3 Flash right turn signal bn
4 Flash left turn signal v
5 Vehicle Speed sensor input w/gn
6 not used
7 12vdc right turn signal switch when pressed
8 left turn signal switch when pressed

Could this be part of my problem?

B. Due to the electric issues I didn’t get my temps taken immediately. I did take a few temps (inferred) after bike sat for 10 min.

Oil temp inside 220*
Heads behind spark plug 360* front 350* rear

1. When removing the vacuum line from carb side of the T did cover it with my finger. T vacuum responded as it should. I did this to make sure the vacuum sensor was working.

2. The 2000I module is new.

3.
S1 off
S2 on
S3 on
S4 on
S5 on
S6 on

(I’m going to have to check this again tomorrow.) I know s4 and s5 should both be off or 4 on and 5 off. But I’m pretty sure this is how it’s set. If 4 and 5 are on would that make the vac kick off much earlier on acceleration?

I’m really hoping it’s something dumb like the switches are not correct. I just had it open today to check the timing and make sure it was on single fire. If s4 is off and s5 is on or worse s4 and s5 are on wouldn’t that explain the extra top end noise I hear? I know I’m not getting the RPM’s anywhere near 7k but I’m thinking it would change the voes setting?
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Old 7th September 2021
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I Couldn’t wait until after work. Had to check ICM. It was set as listed above (7000 rpm’s). Idk how that happened. The only think I can think of is I meant to switch from 6000rpm’s to 6500 rpm’s or the other way around and set them completely wrong some how.

Hopefully I have the time tonight to get it all together and ride. Is it safe to set at 6500 rpm’s or should I set it to 6000 rpm’s? I know n4’s should make power up around 6500 on 1200 cylinders.
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Old 7th September 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfart View Post
I Couldn’t wait until after work. Had to check ICM. It was set as listed above (7000 rpm’s). Idk how that happened. The only think I can think of is I meant to switch from 6000rpm’s to 6500 rpm’s or the other way around and set them completely wrong some how.

Hopefully I have the time tonight to get it all together and ride. Is it safe to set at 6500 rpm’s or should I set it to 6000 rpm’s? I know n4’s should make power up around 6500 on 1200 cylinders.
It's all you as far as what is safe. I have both my bikes set for 7000, but I rarely ever go past 6000. I leave them at 7000 because when you need to get around a truck that is only going 90 you need to hammer it some, and I hate when it bangs off the rev limit while I am in a hurry. More to point, when some ass hat tries to cut me off on the freeway I enjoy making their hair stand on end when I blow past like a loud UFO. There is nothing better than that deep growl that comes in around 5500 and stays there right up to the grenade point. It always makes ass hats pull back out of the way fast.

Other than that, for now I am waiting to see what comes of the good advice that our relaxed buddy just gave you to sort through. I'm not familiar with your ignition, and he is.
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