Ironhead Sidestand Extension/'Pad' ?

[ferretface]

Just read Dr Dick's thread detailing his fix for the extreme lean angle of the Ironheads when parked. Mine is an '83 and uses a different sidestand/jiffy stand mount than his.

I'm thinking that with a 2 x 4 under the OEM sidestand it has a less aggressive lean angle, and with two 2 x 4's it's good for quick garage work.

I have some 1 1/2" black Delrin lying around and was thinking of just screwing a pad onto the bottom of the sidestand.

I don't think I need a longer sidestand; I have enough trouble finding the OEM stand with my toe. The added height of the installed pad would lessen the strain on the frame tab too.

What have others done to 'straighten up' their Ironheads???

[1Scooter]

I removed the old bracket and welded on a new one. Stood the bike up with the help of a chunk of 4x4 to get the lean angle right and tack welded it. Flipped it on it's right side and finished up the welding.

[Captain Johnny]

Drilled a hole. Cut a notch in an old socket. Nut, bolt and washer.

[Andy Hog]

Hi,

why not just sit it up at the angle your happy with. cut it in half, weld in a piece of round bar, job done.

Andy.

[JonesL]

Is everything tight?
A little play in the pivot pin can translate to a noticeable lean when on the stand.
If you're tempted to bend the stand 'just a little'; do it cold and off the bike. Enough force and you can end up twisting the mount off the frame.

Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene or Urethane (Delrin is one) "shoes" work and are easily dialed in for height/lean but they do wear down in time. Another drawback to drilling holes for attaching screws is that you can weaken that spot(s) on the stand.

One made from steel can be welded on. IF you go that route, weld the foot on first then belt sand the bottom off until you get a good foot to ground contact and the height you want. Remember that with the front wheel pointing straight head, the bike will be more vertical so sand a little and test fit, sand a little and test fit.

[ferretface]

Originally Posted by JonesL

Is everything tight?

Yes indeed.

Weakening the stand by drilling mounting holes is a valid discouragement. Mid-USA lists a jiffy stand 1" over stock length for the 57-E84 w/gen. But it doesn't have the flat 'foot'; it's the rod extended. And extending the stand isn't the same as shimming the foot.

My 83 has the 35mm fork tubes, and I'm wondering if I poke the tubes up an inch, and fit 1" shorter rear shocks, it would give me about the same lean angle as the 2 x 4 under the stock jiffy stand.

I wish I had a scale to slide under the jiffy stand to compare the two lean angles. See how much weight is lost with either dropping the bike 1" or shimming the jiffy stand...

[JonesL]

I ended up making everything for my side stand including the mount for the frame.
With the help of my brother to balance the bike, I set the forks with front wheel pointing straight forward and determined what was going to give me a stable lean angle in that position. When the bike is parked w/ wheel pointing to the left the lean angle is always going to be greater but what looks good in that position may end up with the bike being near vertical when the front wheel is pointing forward.
I'm pretty visual and also drew out the bike vertical centerline perpendicular to a horizon line on a big piece of cardboard. Lines indicating just how close to vertical and desired lean angle when parked gave me enough info to 'connect the dots' and dial it right in.
That way I had a pretty good idea what I needed to end up with without doing a lot of cutting and hacking and fitting once I started cutting steel.
Aside from angle finders like plastic ones for kids' school bags up to protractors you can buy, a trick I use is with a square piece of paper. Fold the paper in half and I've got a 90 deg. angle. Folded in half again from the corner out and I've got a 45. Half of that is 22 1/2 degrees. The 45 degree angle folded in thirds gives me 15s. Math then helps me figure out other angles I need. I know it's bonehead stuff but I'm not designing a rocket ship, just figuring how to keep my bike from tipping over.

[ferretface]

Originally Posted by JonesL

Aside from angle finders like plastic ones for kids' school bags up to protractors you can buy, a trick I use is with a square piece of paper.

I have both the kids' plastic Sears/Craftsman angle finder plus a machinists level. I'm using the ribs on the primary cover as my 90 degrees, and the two bottom frame rails as my 0 degrees (wonder of wonders, they actually are 90 degrees apart). But mine is a stock '83 XLH. I'm sure your '71 lean angle will be different from what I get, but just out of curiosity, what lean angle are you using???

[ferretface]

OK, I ran a test of lean angles vs pads/shims under the existing OEM sidestand ["jiffy stand" in Harley-ese]. I positioned the cycle to vertical, got on, bounced a couple/four times, pushed it a couple inches for & aft with braking, then bounced again, then got off and put down the sidestand. I used both the machinists' level and Sears level for the first reading/test; they were the same, so I used the Sears exclusively after that (it's easier to hold in one hand and a flashlight in the other). Here's my results:

OEM Sidestand, no shims/pads = 18 degrees
Sidestand plus a 1 1/2" shim [2x4] = 10 degrees
Sidestand plus a 2 1/4" shim (2x4 + 1x4) = 8 degrees
Sisestand plus a 3" shim (2-2x4's) = 5 degrees

Hmmm...Fairly linear readings. I returned the cycle to vertical before each reading, with a bounce when it was on the sidestand + shims. Front fork tilted all the way to left each reading.

My personal impression was that the two 2x4's [5 degrees] was too much. The single 2x4 [10 degrees] seemed not enough. The 2x4 + 1x4 [8 degrees] seems just right. My impressions were based on the amount of effort it took me to bring the cycle upright off the sidestand. It seemed like at 5 degrees, if a drunk biker outside a bar were to stumble against it, it would go right over.

A longer sidestand to achieve the 8 degrees would be way too long. A 2 1/4" pad would be do-able, but considering how thin the foot of the sidestand is, it might be too unstable, however it is fastened to the foot.

So, I'm still looking for ideas. The tab for the sidestand doesn't fasten directly to the frame, it has a kind of brace that it's welded to that is then welded to the frame. Cutting this brace off and re-welding it to give a more favorable angle [the 8 degrees] would require more disassembly than I'm prepared to do. The engine would likely have to come out. It would require re-positioning the brace as well to get the sidestand to fold up correctly. And after that, it might interfere with the primary chaincase.

I know that riders in the hot states carry metal plates with them to keep a Harley sidestand from sinking into hot asphalt. Maybe I should think about carrying a 2 1/4" Delrin 'hockey puck' around with me...

[JonesL]

ferret, I went with 10 degrees from vertical when the front wheel is pointing forward. Not sure how much more it leans when the front is turned to the left but it's not that much more.
My bike is pretty tall but I still managed to end up using a stock iron head kick stand. 10 1/4" from pivot pin to the contact spot on the ground.


Kickstand geometry has some hidden kinks one needs to be mindful of;
If you get too much lean coupled with a short kickstand, it's possible to get enough weight beyond the contact point on the ground so that the bike does a lazy pole vault over the kick stand and onto its side. Slow enough to watch in amazement yet too fast to sprint back and catch it before it hits the ground.

This is where the comic scene was born where a person is seen running in slow motion with arms outstretched while yelling a long protracted "NOOOOooooooooo" in a very deep voice.