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  #11  
Old 19th February 2020
ZCarFan ZCarFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbie202 View Post
electric is the future.
i just sat on a livewire here in dc at the moto show.
let it sink in that they are asking $30,000 for it and think about what else you could get for that same money.
i fully expect harley to go out of business.
to be honest i think they missed their chance in the '80's
Not too many years ago when things got bad, you could buy a decent livable house around here for $30K.

I'm probably in the minority but I think the motorcycle industry in the US as a whole created their own problems though constant upselling, trying to convince everyone they needed a "premium" or big bike. Up until the last recession, cheap small motorcycles were ignored while 10K+ stuff was pushed on easy credit. A few years after the crash, those 20 year old designs were dumped and a whole new group of 500cc and smaller (and cheaper) bikes came out. If you convince everyone there is a high price to entry, they'll find other activities, hence fewer new riders.

When I saw the Livewire pricing, I couldn't help but think they went the wrong direction. Better to have spent time and money on the Street lineup and make them not so ugly. Looking at the Streets, I can't help but think they intentionally did a bad job to upsell higher profit models and continue the boutique-bike nonsense. This may be a surprise to some, but not everyone has 10K laying around for a hobby, though 5K they might swing it.
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  #12  
Old 19th February 2020
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Better to call it quits than turn into just another freak show kiddie ride.
The Sportster and the Softail are their bread and butter.
Time to downsize maybe. The EU market and it's ridiculous emissions cost them more than it's worth and just put stupid ideas in the EPAs head the past 20 years. Of course that damage has already been done too.
Targeting emissions on motorcycles that get 40+ mpg was stupid and the time to set a precedent and separate from that stupidity is long gone now. It set the epa on the same out of control tyranny and cost more in R&D $$$ than anyone could imagine.
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  #13  
Old 19th February 2020
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They'll never remove the Sporster from the lineup even if the Street models pickup. It's a profit maker and it would affect the bottom line.
As far as sales, we've got a huge dealership close by here (Thunder Mountain HD). I was having a discussion with one of the female salespeople last week and she said they sold 1100 bikes last year. That doesnt sound like a boom in sales to me for a dealership of this size so I agree it's really nothing to write home about. Didn't ask how many of those were used bike but I'm assuming that figure was for new bikes but could be wrong.
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  #14  
Old 19th February 2020
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I think Harley will make it, albeit, as a very different looking company than it is now.

Devin (the "D" in DK) stopped by a Dealership and saw the Harley Balance Bikes for kids. See them at this LINK



For him, it is a no-brainer...He is getting one for his son, Gabe, for his upcoming 4th birthday.


That, I believe, is how Harley plans to stay in the motorcycle game.
  • Gabe will have his first Harley at age 4.
  • At some point down the road he will probably get a Harley E-Bike.
  • Then when he turns 16 and gets his license, he will get a Harley motorcycle....probably an electric one.
  • That will be what he has known since is first one at age 4.
(yes, at some point Gabe will also probably have one of his dad's "old" gas burners, but it will probably be a novelty or specialty bike, not his main transportation)

It's a whole new world!

Kevin

P.S. Here's a photo of a bike I would have loved to have as a kid! In fact, I'd like one now, but I know I would hurt myself. :





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  #15  
Old 19th February 2020
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Interesting that everyone considers the Softtail as part of the "bread and butter" compared to the FL series or even the old FXR/Dyna frames which are much much older.

Anyway on topic, I doubt the Sportster as the model that we know and love lives another 10 years unless they re-brand the water-cooled Street series. Frankly I think they lost what made them what they are when they rubber-mounted the engines. Still, it'll be sad to see the line killed off, when the time comes but I think its inevitable.
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  #16  
Old 19th February 2020
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don't forget the Street-fighter or the Custom yet to be sold on markets...

anyway...

speaking by European metrics imprinted guy who rode since 14...
unless the former 975 or 1250 will be fantastic... and sold under 15k Euros (even if don't think they will be absolutely under 20k)...

and with the Sporty discontinued...

i think i already had done with HD (20 years it's not a whiff anyway)...
i'm not a fan of Softails or Tourings (they are beautiful but the story ends there), since i consider them old men's bikes... (that said from one who rode a girl's bike since 2001)...

so
maybe for my retirement it will be a metric...
EU compliant (what a shame)...
and powerful...
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