Ironhead Blown Lights, WHY?

[IronHeadRon]

Update, put in a big ass cap as the manual indicates (see my circuit diagrams comparison thread for confirmation if that.

Started her with lights off, turned on rear, AND IT WORKED

BUT was not glowing at the end of a spirited ride down the block. Looking like regulator (possibly I bought cheesy tails but 99%, luckily I have a spare. Will throw on, and let the other threads die as this one is named most properly.

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by ryder rick

Might have smoked the armature. They don't like running at full output.

Hey Rick, the fact that I have power output still probably means it's not that right. No rush, that's the most expensive fix so it will go after replacing the regulator either way. But there's no way these are the symptoms of a "blown armature" right?

[Chuckthebeatertruck]

You do not have a "blown armature."

when the armature goes down -- you have no output.

Armatures "blow" because they overheat. They overheat because of . . . poor regulation, which is what Rick was trying to allude to in his post.

Basically, your generator has the potential to produce 30 amps of power at roughly 50v. What the regulator does is turn the field coils on and off to produce power as needed or to "dump" excess to ground. When regulation goes out the window -- the generator just keeps producing power -- and the faster you spin the motor the more amperage/wattage the generator produces. A battery system can absorb this to some extent. When the battery can't absorb anymore it either explodes or just dies.

It looks like this when it happens:



On a battery-less system -- your lamps take the over current first and that is the primary reason your lights are blowing.

However, if you don't repair the root cause, it will eventually lead to a fried armature.

Thankfully, right now is the only time in history armatures are being sold for less than the material cost -- if you know where to look.

And, yes, I do know where to look: https://www.bmikarts.com/12V-Generat...on_p_5105.html


Don't get all "I won't buy no China stuff" -- if you want to go that route your ONLY choice is Cycle Electric at roughly 1000% more. Otherwise, all your electrics are coming from China/Taiwan/non-US.

As for a regulator -- if you're hard pressed on $$, try one of these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/39262036191...Cclp%3A2563228


I've used both that "cheap" armature and that end cap regulator on one of my magneto fired personal bikes -- three seasons and no issues.


YMMV

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by Chuckthebeatertruck

......

Sooo, I was expecting something a bit more dramatic, but it looks like this confirms your intuitive to a very high degree of probability

I'm guessing that there yellow dangling thingy is probably supposed to connect to the input (explains why it sounded fine, the relay was trying, it just had nothing too relay! As tempting as soldering this aftermarket pos maybe, that original seemed much beefier, much more snappy, and nothing looks way wrong (sure there's a bit of corrosion but the connections are all connecting)

From my http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...2081747&page=3 thread

Originally Posted by ryder rick

There is nothing wrong with the White Bros 74500 Cap. A larger cap will take more abuse.

I moved here as it seems more apt for the continued diagnosis and stuffs.

Thanks Rick, I crunched some numbers and did alot of thinking but it always helps to have an experienced wrench back you up!

Sorry for delay, stupid court stuff and life and kids and list phone. Anyway's, the plan is still a few posts up. I'll go through the same test

Control B+-------|ı---------Grounding screw
Threshold D+--------|ı----------DF
Limit D+---------GeneratorArmature GeneratorField-------------DF

I will be surprised if the first two fail but am going too be holding my breath on the road test/ Limiting Relay test.

Thanks for everything guy's, even just the space to put my thoughts in order helped. I know I asked some extremely basic questions over the course of these three threads, I was quite sure, buying doubting my own confidence, thanks for not giving me too much crap. Let me know if anything seems off in my approacch!

[IronHeadRon]

If somehow I find some cash though I might buy a spare field, if it is as good of a deal as you say seems everyone should jump on it just in case!

[IronHeadRon]

Now I did the opposite, editing when I meant to post!!!! Anyways, I lost the old one. Basically explained any percieved attitude by myself us just that,percieved, (I would never intentionally take any attitude with someone trying to help, especially when I asked!!!! I am just a broke shadetree biker; I'm sure you understand. Nor surprised you were right but I don't regret trying. Half of something was worth the pita of popping out that regulatorto me at the time. The new post is in place of that post. Sorry. I will tryn pay closer attention to buttons.

Oh also had pictures of the new old regulator









Plan us to try the three tests on this, and depending on result act accordingly (probably either buying one or riding, hopefully the later)

[bustert]

capacitors do not resist change, they try and keep it flowing, a inductor will resist change.
it also depends upon how the capacitor is hooked up. for a/c filtering, it is connected to source and ground, the capacitor blocks the dc but allows the a/c component to go to ground, thus removing and flickering in the light. a battery acts like a huge capacitor so a battery system usually does not need a filtering capacitor.

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by bustert

capacitors do not resist change, they try and keep it flowing, a inductor will resist change.
it also depends upon how the capacitor is hooked up. for a/c filtering, it is connected to source and ground, the capacitor blocks the dc but allows the a/c component to go to ground, thus removing and flickering in the light. a battery acts like a huge capacitor so a battery system usually does not need a filtering capacitor.

Yeah, I think that was a big issue at first (mixing up the two) got it now though I think

Wish I could just merge threads, my my2capicitorQuestopnsThread basically turned into an extention of this (I was hoping it would be a quick answer and die thread like my myCircuitDiagramConparisonThread , as this one was getting hard to keep track of and I like to think things all the way through. People were jumping straight to diagnosis (some correct, but many stated as ruled out. It doesn't bother me or anything, I was just confused on some simple things.)

I think of a capacitor as a lazy dude kinking a hose. When the current suddenly increases, he doesn't adjust fast enough, some slips through, until it is again perfectly kinked at the widest angle to stop the current. However, if he's current slowing down up stream (+) he immediately relaxes his hands to the angle needed to stop the upcoming current, so again a bit (of the current current) slips through. I think if capacitance as the diameter of the hose. That helped me think through it.

Here is my diagram, it's a pretty big hose, may help, but it's almost surely the regulator (see above)

[IronHeadRon]

Oh that bike, has to just keep playing games.

So, I have a bunch of ¾" rubber that I cut up to make sure it was insulated. Cut the shit out of myself, finf it nearly impossible to connect 3 hots to B+ (I ended up on the ground twisted around, screwing with my left hand as my right held them in place......suffice to say, much more of a pita than expected.

So I finish her up, Tail is fine, NO HEADLAMP, but brights. So naturally I moved the battery up to after the switch, NO brights!!!!!!!!

did a 12V battery blow out my headlamps, did the test ride the other day affect them despite being an open circuit??????? No, the stupid copper plug things fell off the lamp.

Thank God I can easily fix it, but why bike why; I really think your ready and you have to pull one more trick on me!!!!!!

TL;DR Control passed
Up next is threshold testing
Then the bump start and revs of truth.

Wish this old Bosch luck!

[IronHeadRon]

OK, so after my jumper cable broke (I'm telling you man, Murphy was writing laws about this bike!)
and scared me half to death. She is battery tested (this regulator doesn't trigger off battery, needs my bike running odd, does that tell me anything about them?) and now we just have to jump her, flip on the tail, give it so e revs, and pray.