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  #1  
Old 1st April 2007
Screw Loose Dan's Avatar
Screw Loose Dan Screw Loose Dan is offline
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Default Daytona Twin Tec TCFI II install on a 2007 Sporty

Ok, some of you have likely seen my posts on Sportster.org. I apologize that I haven't gotten anything up here sooner. It was a lot of late nights this week.

Anyway, first a little background; I have converted my 883 to a 1200. This was a fairly standard conversion, 1212 NRHS conversion with Stage 2 porting on my 883 heads and SE 497 cams. I have CS Slip-ons and a 3" Hurricane A/C. I used a SE Race Fueler to adjust the fuel mix.

Link to why I did the conversion. (why they call me Screw Loose)
Link to my impressions after the conversion

Since doing the conversion I've been having a few issues with just off idle stumbling. Also, I could feel where the SERF was transitioning between RPM ranges. I just felt like it was less then ideal. I think if you were just doing small tweaking it could be fine. But I think the head work with bigger valves and cams was pushing the setup to it's limits.

I had been reading up on all the different ways to manage the fuel on these EFI bikes long before I did the conversion. I wanted something with complete control. But I didn't want to have to take the bike to a dyno to tune (this ruled out the SERT). I really liked everything I read about the Daytona setup. Then I called and got to speak with Chris, he's the developer there. They had sold one unit for a 07 Sporty, but hadn't gotten much feedback. We agreed that since I have a little computer experience (MCSE, CCNA, etc) that I would make a good candidate to help them R&D the TCFI on a Sporty.

I don't think this solution is for everyone. It requires some major cabling. You should probably be familiar with soldering wires together. You need to take factory connectors apart. There's also money. This isn't cheap. And, probably the most important thing to consider is you need to be very familiar with using a Windows based PC. Daytona reports that most people that have problems actually have PC related issues, not problems with the installation itself.

I want to make this clear, they sold the unit to me at dealer cost. This saved me a bundle of money. This cost savings is what I get for being one of the first people to do this and having to start out from the ground. I just want everyone to understand, that although I'm working with Daytona to R&D this I'm not an employee and have no other affiliation.

So, Daytona sent me a TCFI II with WEGO IID O2 module. I could go into detail about what all this does, but I think Daytona's website says it much better then I could:
Quote:
The TCFI kit now includes the new WEGO IID dual channel wide-band exhaust gas oxygen interface that allows auto-tuning during actual on-road riding conditions. The kit includes Bosch LSU 4.2 wide-band sensors for both front and rear cylinders. The user programs a table with the desired air/fuel ratios - the system then does the rest. No Dyno tuning required!

The TCFI solves tuning problems with highly modified engines. Competitive “band-aid” products that interface to the Delphi® controller still rely on speed-density fuel control. Long duration/high overlap camshafts wreak havoc with manifold pressure - especially at idle and cruise RPM. Speed-density based fuel control simply can’t cope.

High-end automotive racing systems use alpha-N (throttle position and RPM based) fuel control. Alpha-N eliminates any dependence on manifold pressure and is unaffected by long duration/high overlap camshafts. The TCFI brings this proven technology to the H-D® marketplace.

The TCFI has the same ignition control as our proven TC88/TC88A Twin Cam ignition systems with fully programmable advance curves. Idle air control including idle RPM and cold start characteristics are also fully programmable. This facilitates the use of throttle bodies modified for higher airflow.

New H-D® motorcycles use the SAE J1850 data bus for communications between the engine control module (TCFI), instrument cluster, turn signal/security module (TSM/TSSM), and diagnostic scan tools. The second generation TCFI fully supports this new J1850 data bus including the use of the H-D® scan tool to read sensor data and clear diagnostic codes. The TCFI also has built-in data logging that stores data for the last 15 minutes of operation. A USB interface and Windows compatible software allow the use of a laptop PC for programming and data analysis. The USB interface plugs into the existing H-D® diagnostic connector on the motorcycle wiring harness.
Now I'll jump into the physical install. It took two nights to complete the install. Fortunately my buddy Chuck allowed me to do the work in his garage. First thing was mounting the new ECM. So, off with the old ECM:



Thought it was going to be super easy. The TCFI unit fits the stock bracket. But, later we realized my Mustang seat wouldn't fit over it. Today I discovered that the stock seat does fit (there's a picture lower down), so this may not be an issue for others. The unit is slightly thicker then stock:



So we first clearanced the plate that the unit sits on:



That still didn't make enough room...so next thing I clearanced was the seat pan. Fortunately, the Mustang has a fiberglass bottom so it was pretty easy to grind away. Here's the finished product:



Well, it took a few attempts to get to what you see above. But it was pretty easy. I used a little bit of grease on the edges of the TCFI to mark the bottom of the seat and where it needed to be clearanced.

The ECM connector needs to have a wire added to an empty pin that runs down the the diagnostic connector under the batter cover. Also, there is a pin that needs to be moved (this is apparently the only difference between BT's and Sporty ECMs according to Daytona). You also have to replace the pins for the O2 sensors with the harness that goes to the Daytona WEGO O2 sensor module.

The ECM connector comes apart fairly easily. Just requires a small precision style screw driver to open and remove the pins. I'd recommend having the Factory Service Manual for getting it open. But it's easy enough (we actually had to do it a few times because we didn't read ahead in the directions and had to open it to add the O2 sensors). Here's a picture of everything torn up:



The pin that you added to the ECM connector that runs to the diagnostic connector requires that you pull the Deutsch connector apart. This was a little trickier to get apart. Well, at least it took a couple more minutes to figure out. Also, the FSM wasn't very clear. I didn't get any good pictures of the process. But basically you need to get a pick and pull the green center wedge out. Once that's out it's pretty simple. All done:



The TCFI uses Daytona's WEGO IID unit to use the wide band O2 sensors. The WEGO is a seperate unit from the ECM. The harness for the O2 sensors is directly connected. The unit all needs 12 volts and ground connections. Also, there's two wires that connect into the ECM's connector (replacing the stock O2 harness). So, I decided that the WEGO would go under the battery cover. It took moving the Maxi-Fuse and the diagnostic connector. Once we were sure it could fit under the cover, I started running the O2 sensor harness:



Here's where I used a phantom connector (supplied in the kit) to connect the WEGO to 12 volt accessory power:



I was pretty successful in keeping the wires neat and hiding them the best I could. The cables are grey, really wish they had been black. I used some regular wire loom to cover the exposed areas.

Here's everything tucked away and a close up of the WEGO. You'll notice the two pots for adjusting the unit:



Before mounting the O2 sensors, you need to calibrate them. It's very simple you just plug them in and turn the power on the bike. The WEGO unit warms the sensors up then you simply adjust the pots so the calibration light just starts to flash.

We were able to remove the front O2 sensor without removing the front exhaust. The rear one required removing the exhaust pipe. No biggie. Just some extra time. I would recommend having an O2 sensor socket. This would negate having to remove the exhaust. Here's a picture of the front O2 sensor and it's connector:



Here's some pics of the cabling straightened up a little bit (and the bike a littler cleaner):



Rear O2 sensor:


Front O2 sensor:


FYI...the stock 883L seat actually fit with no modification:


Here's my favorite picture of my EXTREMELY dirty bike (can you tell I actually ride my bike?)



This post is already pretty long. I'll break this up by stopping here for now. Stay tuned for the software and initial start-up.
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Current fleet:
2007 - 1200R (Orange bike)
2012 - XR1200X (XR)
2016 - 1200CX Roadster (new one)
2007 - 883L/90" -current project - (Black bike)

Last edited by Screw Loose Dan; 3rd March 2018 at 15:54.. Reason: Just updating one of the links for the images
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Old 1st April 2007
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Ok, so we had everthing installed. I had already installed the software on my computer and started playing around with it. This is where we get into completely uncharted territory. Daytona has been producing the TCFI for several years for BT's. But since this is the first year Sportsters get EFI, they don't have any "stock" maps to begin with. So I loaded up a map for a 2006 88" and began from there.

I should mention that Daytona's documentation is very good. It's technical documentation, not hand holding step-by-step instructions. You need to apply some logic to it. But, they provide tons of information to get you on the right track.

I admit that I'm not an expert when it comes to fuel injection. Heck, I know very little about tuning engines in general. I've spent a lot of time reading. But for the most part I'm figuring this out as I go. Shooting from the hip.

I knew the first thing I would have to do is change the ignition map. Thanks to Turbota's thread on Daytona's TC88A ignition I had a place to start. I pretty much took his map and copied the values into the stock map:



Those that are familiar with the TC88A, you'll notice that the TCFI has a few more points in the lower RPM range. So I just smoothed out those points by using averages.

The next thing I knew I had to set was the VSS value. This is important because it sets your speedometer readings and the documentation says that it effects the idle circuit at certain times. I started out with a VSS of 1431 for my stock 883 gearing. Later, I reread Tubota's thread and realized that I put the wrong VSS value in. No biggie.

The VSS value along with a few other settings are on the Basic Module parameters page:



I used the BT's injector size of 3.91. Later Chris from Daytona told me that the SERT shows a injector size of 3.87, but he said that this difference is within tolerances. So, I've left it that way. You also need to set the Estimated HP. I was being optomistic and originally put in a value of 80. I've since changed this down to 70 HP. This value is used in a formula to calculate the injector pulse width base map. It doesn't seem that critical from what I can tell. I also left the Rev Limiter at 5800 RPM (for now). I needed to check the box for "Enable Low Fuel Light".

These were the only things that I changed before the initial start-up. But in case anyone is interested, this is some of the other screens:

The Advance Module parameters page:


The AFR map:


The Alpha-N map (this is essentially the base map):


The User Function page (allows use of a relay to trigger anything you like...think NOS):


Before starting it up, we hooked the computer up to the bike via an adapter Daytona supplies. This would allow us to watch real-time data with the engine running. I didn't get any screen shots of my bike running with the logging software up. But from Daytona's website:



When we cranked over for the first time, it started right up!!! It idled relatively smoothly right out of the box. WOW! After 30 seconds it goes into closed loop (the O2 sensors take 30 seconds to warm up). The idle gets amazingly smooth. We discovered that the front O2 connector wasn't secured because the front cylinder was running like crap (AFR was jumping all around) and throwing errors. After correcting this, the idle gets even smoother. We let the engine warm up. The more it idles the smoother it gets. But we are watching the BLM values (oversimplified, the BLM is how much the TCFI has to adjust off of the base map in %). The BLM can only compensate +- 25% even in closed loop. At idle the BLM was at 125. So it took a couple of times, but we adjusted the Alpha-N map by adding 10% to the idle cells (750->1500 RPM and 0-> 5% TPS). Modifying the map is extremely easy. You download the map from the TCFI, then edit the map by opening it, selecting the cells you want to modify. Modifying cells can be done by entering a number or you can select mutiple cells and just say "+10" (or whatever value you want to add) which would add 10 points to the selected cells or "-10%" which would subtract 10 percent of each cells value.

We got the idle down. The BLM values were real good. Good BLM values represent that the TCFI is not adjusting very much off of the Alpha-N map. The BLM should be within +-10%. If the TCFI is not adjusting at all it reports 100%. If it's taking fuel away (because of the AFR/O2 readings), it will be a number less then 100. Conversely if it's adding fuel it will be over 100%.

So, it was time to take it for a spin. Started off REALLY rough. Coughing, sputtering, and farting like crazy. It wasn't how I wanted my new engine to sound! I hadn't gone 10 feet and I wanted to stop. My buddy Chuck encouraged me on. Well, I kept it running and quickly it started getting smoother. As I rode the first little bit I could feel it adjusting as I rode. The strangest feeling. Lots of surging that would start very strongly then the bike would slowly smooth out. Really odd feeling. But a few trip around the block and every thing was running smooth!!

Took it for a ride up the street to the gas station. I had noticed that the bike was getting harder to start. Well at the gas station it wouldn't start. Fortunately, my buddy had ridden along on his RK. He was able to push me so I could bump start it. Word to the wise, be careful how much idling you do. Also, when you upload and download the data you need to keep the bike in the run position with the key on. I think this killed the battery.

So once we got it started we went for about a 30 mile ride. I tried to vary my RPM and throttle position as well as cruise at various speeds. The first ride was amazing. The more I rode the better the throttle response got. Whacking the throttle at 3K RPM was simpling amazing. I should also mention that there was NO stumble off of idle like I had with the stock ECM and SERF. The improvement over the previous configuration is amazing.

I did notice a bit of pining at low RPM (1500-2500 RPM) when I twisted the RPM really hard. I believe this is because I'm running a little lean at these RPM's. For this reason I decided to back off the ignition timing for the time being. At first I subtract 2 degrees of advance across the entire range. This proved to be a little too much, so I added back in 1 degree of advance (so still down 1 degree from where I started).

As I mentioned I had set the VSS incorrectly and the speedo was off at least 5 MPH. I changed the VSS this evening to 1682 as had been posted on Turbota's TC88A thread. I checked it this evening with my GPS and I'm spot on now. Even at 90 MPH!

I've learned a few things along the way (it's amazing what happens when you RTFM). The bike auto tunes as you ride. The TCFI keeps track of how much it's adjusting and tracks this in BLM table. You can download these and it looks like this:



Anything in red indicates where it's out of adjustment range. You can either manually update the Alpha-N map or there's an option to "Apply the BLM table". This automatically adjusts the Alpha-N table for you. Pretty cool. Then all you do is upload the new information to the TCFI.

The TCFI keeps 15 minutes of data for download. This means, run around the block, stop the bike, hook the computer up and see the following chart on your most recent run:



From the logging software you can see all kinds of data for the last 15 minutes.

Well, I'm sure there's more to report on. It's been a really cool adventure so far. I still have some more tweaking to do. I get a very rich condition when I start the engine warm. There's a bunch more tables to tweak this stuff that I haven't begun to play with.

Chris from Daytona has been extremely helpful in getting me setup. Although, I haven't really had to bug him very much since everything went pretty smoothly.

The engine seems to be running excellently. Even though I'm not done tweaking, I couldn't be happier thus far. As I said at the beginning, I don't think this solution is for everyone. It's certainly more then most guys (and gals) who are running typical stage 1 upgrades need to get involved in. The faint of heart probably need not apply. If your not familiar with a PC you probably want to seriously consider something else. But for someone that likes to fiddle, is running wild cams, or has non-standard configurations (like stage 2 heads) this seems to be the ticket.

I'm sure later I'll add some other things that I've forgotten...

Last edited by Screw Loose Dan; 3rd March 2018 at 16:01..
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  #3  
Old 1st April 2007
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Absolutely outstanding post! Very detailed and informative. The knowledge that you are obtaining here will be a tremendous help to many in the future. It is greatly appreciated!
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Old 1st April 2007
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Another thing you get to see in the logging software is the how many hours you have spent at particular RPM's. I'm not sure of the usefulness yet, but it's kinda cool.

First the Histogram:



I'm a little concerned about the amount of time between 1000-1500 (not idle). That would seem to indicate that I spend a lot of time cruising at really low RPM's. And I don't. But computer doesn't lie... I guess I spend more time stopping and going then I realize.

The Statistics page:



(note the .52 seconds spent at the rev limiter )

Last edited by Screw Loose Dan; 3rd March 2018 at 16:03..
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Old 2nd April 2007
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Absolutely amazing post and information. Please keep adding to it as you go!

One day, this thread will be looked back upon as the very beginning stages of what the EFI Sporty's are capable of from a fuel tuning standpoint.

First call to make this a sticky!!!
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Old 2nd April 2007
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2nd call to make this stick! Great post there for a guy with a loose screw. I'm becoming intrigued about this product. I will watch for more info as you go further. Thanks for all the data and once again, great work Dan!
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Old 2nd April 2007
Screw Loose Dan's Avatar
Screw Loose Dan Screw Loose Dan is offline
I think I like Sportsters
 
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The only problem with making this a sticky is that none of the moderators are ever going to make it to the bottom of the two original posts to see your requests!

Seriously, thanks for the encouragement. I'm not really sure how many guys would really be interested in something like the TCFI because it's not just a bolt on solution. You have to do some care and feeding. Hopefully, the next guy will have less care and feeding then I have to do (since Daytona will hopefully pass along my maps), but there's always going to be some. Also, I've seen the retail prices for these things and they aren't cheap. It's definitely overkill for a stage 1.
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Old 2nd April 2007
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GREAT write-up.

ALMOST makes me want to go as crazy with mods as you have.

Gotta make this thread a sticky, absolutely, PM one of the mods!

Also, next time some myopic technophobe bitches about not being able to modify/tune an EFI motor PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE direct them here!!!

Can't wait to see, hear and observe this bike in real life, we'll have to get together again, EXCEPT I'm riding the Guzzi next time, cause it sounds like you'd leave me for dead on the 883L!!!

Kev
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Old 4th April 2007
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See my personal experience with 07 R 883 to 1250 conversion
http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/foru...ad.php?t=48910
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Sportster/Buell Year: 2010
Reputation: 12660
Crusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of lightCrusin_w00kie is a glorious beacon of light
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*calls NRHS* Yes, I'd like to order a 1250 stg3 conversion......um..yes..I do have a way to make it all run like a raped ape.* lol

Seriously though, awesome post!! We need this stickied (sp?) right away!!!
Awesome post!!
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1990 Mazda B2200 (with no body or frame rot...imagine that!!)
Toy=07 xl1200R (taxes paid and re-flashed)now with FUELPAK! (Sold August 2010) gone but not forgotten.
*new* 2010 Deluxe - Big sucker - PC5 - V&H true duals (much more)
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