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  #11  
Old 18th September 2009
Kirk the Jerk Kirk the Jerk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khaskins View Post
How about notifying HD, so they can release a correction.
They won't budge, and told me, they stand behind the torque values.

Dan, thanks for starting this thread. I think the best answer to how tight these bolts should be is similar to what Redd Tigger said. Blue thread-locker and hand snug should be just fine.

Unless you have an accurate in-lb wrench, then I'd use the above suggestion.

ALSO, I realized something with the primary cover. The threads are not threaded ALL THE WAY. That might cause issues as well, as those bolts won't start threading themselves, and I think this is why the aluminum cracks, when brought to the wrong torque spec.

I'm still going to try to time-sert mine, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
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  #12  
Old 18th September 2009
09 blackthunder 09 blackthunder is offline
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I also for got to add and this is a point that kirk brought up in his thread. I was in process of adjusting my chain put the cover back on. Did my road test and came back re-checked my work and went to put the cover back on and I was at 80 to 85 in lbs when it crumbled. The 100 to 120 in lbs will only work 2 or maybe 3 at the most before it gives. It's even worse I bet when the cover is hot. That was the 4th time I had the cover off since I've owned the bike. The 1st 2 were before I bought the manual so I wasn't doing much work on the bike but some basic stuff. The 1st was when I had my 1k done by the dealer to check the work. The 2nd is when I replaced the stock inspection cover with the wrinkle black one. the last 2 in process of doing my 5k now. I was using the snug method as well as the 40-60 in lbs the 1st 2 times.
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  #13  
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khaskins View Post
How about notifying HD, so they can release a correction.
Even if they would correct it in future editions that means there are literally thousands (or more likely 10s of thousands) of books out there already with the wrong data.

Is someone gonna make this a STICKY - I think they should!
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  #14  
Old 18th September 2009
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Did everyone update their manuals!?!?

Can someone confirm what section and what page the corrections needs to be made on? As well as the print date of the manual (on the very first page, listed at MM/YY). I'd like to have a complete list of incorrect manuals and which pages so as new people check into the thread they don't have to go searching through their manual wondering if they got them all.

Tater - Thanks for pointing out the mistake is also in the owner's manual as well. Can someone with an 2008 or 2010 owner's manual confirm this as well (with the page)? My 2007 has the correct value.
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  #15  
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashedwards View Post
WOW, Thanks Dan: I'm a firm believer in torqueing and factory provided torque specifications but this makes me stop and think. I'll still torque everything I tighten but I won't look at the specs like they were the gospel.
Thanks for the heads up,
Flash
Yeah, best to think before tightening. Not that I haven't over torqued things...but usually because I wasn't thinking at the time (BTW...don't mistake in-lbs for ft-lbs...that can have some devastating effects too!!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddTigger View Post
Use the German Torque Values...

"GoodenTight"
I agree on these bolts. They have o-rings. Really just need snugged up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
OK-I think you are right-Then also my 09 xl 1200 Owners Manual (pg. 107) lists the same so it needs to be changed to 40-60 in. lbs. also...
Have a good one...Tater...
This was a really good catch! I never even thought about this. I hadn't looked at my owner's manual for quite sometime and forgot they had some technical stuff in there. I wonder how many guys use that for servicing their bike? Hmmm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaskins View Post
How about notifying HD, so they can release a correction.
I can't contact them. I don't even officially have the problem. I own a 2007 and 2007 manuals as such. Kirk tried to contact the MoCo directly and got no where. MindfulRider was able to get his fixed under warranty thru his dealer, so hopefully (maybe?) the dealer notified MoCo. It sounds like 09 blackthunder will be working thru his dealer. If I contact Harley, they would surely tell me to piss off after the run around Kirk got.
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  #16  
Old 18th September 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 09 blackthunder View Post
I'm going to call the warranty guy when the dealer I deal with opens up today and bring this up to him. I'm sure because of the gasket change is why is torque spec went up. Thats stupid though. The gasket isn't even a 1/16th of an inch bigger and to increase the specs that much more is a problem especially when they have been the same for awhile. What about the 2003 and older manuals were they 40-60 in lbs as well or were they different. I know the inspection is different on those. Like the guy said to me is that it looked like I went in at an angle, no thats not the problem it's the aluminum starting to crumble and then the screw starts to thread sideways because those threads that start the process or leaving contact.
I suspect it has nothing to do with the gasket thickness (other then as Kirk points out that the thinner gasket allows it to pull the screw in closer to the end of the threads). The values may have been all updated at that time, but I really think it's because the mis-listing of the part size in the manual. My meager understanding of torque values is it should be based on bolt size, the material they are going into, the depth/length they go into the material, and the grade of bolt. None of these things changed. BUT - according to the parts manual there WAS a change...to to the size of the bolt. According to the newer parts manuals the bolt is listed as 1/2". Anyone that has done this will tell you that is no 1/2" bolt. It's 1/4-20. It's been 1/4-20. The change in torque value very closely follows this change in "reported" size.
  • The 2007 Parts Manual (99451-07A) list 41191-74A (they don't list this in the hardware section unfortunately, but I can assure you it is 1/4-20).
  • The 2008 Parts Manual (99451-08) list 41191-74A (again not listed in HW section)
  • The 2009 Parts Manual (99451-09) list 41191-74A, but they list it in the hardware section as a 1/2-20 X 5/8 hex socket flat hd., w/lockpatch.
(anyone with a 99451-08A parts manual want to chime in?)


It's my theory anyway! But, that's certainly open to interpretation and dissection.
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  #17  
Old 18th September 2009
Kirk the Jerk Kirk the Jerk is offline
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Torque goes up non-linearly to the bolt size. It's all about how much surface area each bolt has in contact with the threads. If you increase the diameter of a bolt, then the circumference increases Pi (3.14...) times as much as the diameter. Then you've got thread pitch, and depth, which usually increases with bolt size...etc.

One more thing, I got to talk to the local dealership's Service Rep (which goes to all the regional HD dealers to check service departments) and he pretty much told me the same thing that HD told me. They stand behind the specs, and when you do the service yourself, they can't warranty anything caused from the service...
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  #18  
Old 18th September 2009
Kirk the Jerk Kirk the Jerk is offline
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My FSM specs...

SPORTSTER MODELS 2009 Harley Davidson Service Manual
Print date - 01/09

Page 1-2 - Fastener Torque Values In This Chapter - "Primary Chain Inspection Cover Screw" - 84-120 in-lbs

Page 1-11 - Table 1-4 Quick Reference Maintenance Chart - "Primary Chain Inspection Cover Screw Torque" - 84-120 in-lbs

Page 1-40 - Primary Chain Adjustment (instructions) - "6. Install primary chain inspection cover (1) and new gasket. Tighten hex socket screws to 84-120 in-lbs (9.5-13.6 Nm)." - 84-120 in-lbs

Page XXII - Torque Values - "Primary chain inspection cover" & "Primary chain inspection cover screw" - 84-120 in-lbs
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  #19  
Old 18th September 2009
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Thanks Kirk!
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torque values can easliy be researched on the net.
there are torque tables posted by the bolt manufacturers.
the engineers at Harley do not have some magic formula used for motorcycles.
all engineers including myself use these charts when creating specs for the machines we build.
Bolt Torque Chart

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