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  #161  
Old 12th November 2018
1HD4CJM1X4K 1HD4CJM1X4K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
For sure there are a lot of good long time riders that have no idea what counter steering means.
Point.

I was talking to a biker who had been riding for 50 years.
We had a good conversation and ended up riding together through town and mixing with traffic for 15 miles, I ended up just following him because I did not want him behind me.
I watched him pull out,,
Change lanes,,
Signal his intentions and fumble the ball trying to mix.
Was he lying about riding for 50 years?
Was he feeble?
He seemed a nice enough chap, but took a U turn that took up three lanes and then had to merge back two of them.

Seemed to do okay going straight and kept his distance from the cars ahead.

Not the normal example, but he needs to take a safety course.
I know he thinks he is being safe.

Have not met up with him again.
I am sure that we will eventually..

Will recommend taking a class.
If you KNOW how to counter steer, you will be safer.
If you do it without knowing what you are actually doing, you will not transition fast enough to save yourself in an emergency (My Opinion).

So, yes, the laws of physics are the same for everyone, but some know more about the laws than others.
Some practice to get it right and it becomes intuitive to a fine degree.

Laying down a bike is a skill I do not practice.
Too expensive to practice and too dangerous (In my opinion).

If an accident is truly unavoidable, I want the speed to be reduced,
There are a LOT of riders on this forum who have far greater skills than I do and wear out (using) all of their tread-patch.
I am too conservative to worry about how far it leans and how fast I can take it, but at the speeds I ride, it is good to know how to shift to another lane instantly if needed.
If that is something you can do intuitively then you have me aced.

I need practice.
It may be intuitive, but I still need practice.

I could show you a youtube of someone that also needed to practice, but not sure about the policy of Youtubing.
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  #162  
Old 12th November 2018
1HD4CJM1X4K 1HD4CJM1X4K is offline
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Intuitive?

He rides to the Harley shop.

He is a Youtuber who blogs about Motorcycles.

Steering locked?

Not really..

Did not lock

You decide.

Watch what happens at 3 min and 40 some odd seconds into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HpMigyyVbg

What do you think happened?

The Harley dealer checked the kick stand (on tape) and if it dropped, the engine shuts off. No dropping kick stand.

Folkie, I guess this is the speed where you cannot turn.

I believe he told the bike to lay down..
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  #163  
Old 13th November 2018
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Reason #883 that I ride a Sportster. They're more civilized than those wild hogs. Safer too.

In the video it looks like the rider "may have" been going to slow in a gear, stalled, and gotten thrown off. That's reason #1200 that I don't like equine horses(getting thrown off). #1 is that they're too slow.

I only ride IRON horses.
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  #164  
Old 13th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HD4CJM1X4K View Post
Watch what happens at 3 min and 40 some odd seconds into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HpMigyyVbg

What do you think happened?

The Harley dealer checked the kick stand (on tape) and if it dropped, the engine shuts off. No dropping kick stand.
I suspect he is NOT used to having forward controls - put his foot back toward his sport bike peg and ended up putting the kickstand down... The bike is not running when he gets to it... And the bike is rotated counterclockwise like pivoting aroung the kickstand...

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  #165  
Old 13th November 2018
1HD4CJM1X4K 1HD4CJM1X4K is offline
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Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
I suspect he is NOT used to having forward controls - put his foot back toward his sport bike peg and ended up putting the kickstand down... The bike is not running when he gets to it... And the bike is rotated counterclockwise like pivoting around the kickstand...

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I believe now, that you are 100% correct.
My thoughts were totally different, but you nailed it.
It is a shame he laid it down
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  #166  
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It DOES point out the necessity of knowing your bike - At the beginning of the vid, the guy who went down says: "It's a very different riding position than I'm used to" -- listen at 1:35... Notice also he said about the steering lock kicking in - but I think it was his perception that the front wheel wouldn't turn when the bike rear end lifted off the roadway (on the stand)...

They're giddy and amped-up - but when you switch riding to a different style bike, it is critical to spend some time getting used to ALL the controls... New & Different requires precautions...


Just a note about learning to ride - Some folks find language and art INTUITIVE while others struggle to get the hang of it - And in reverse, some folks find math & science to be INTUITIVE and others struggle to understand the concepts... Neither is RIGHT nor either WRONG inherently - Different people just have different INTUITIVE perceptions...

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  #167  
Old 13th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
I wonder whether we're still using countersteering to initiate a turn, even at very slow speed; and it's just that at very slow speed the amount of handlebar movement to start the turn is so small that we do it without realising?
To some extent I think there is merit in that. In slow maneuvers around cones, etc. It feels like the wheel just flops over into the turn, and when it's really tight, the body lean is counter to normal. In those types of cases, I don't think there is enough forward movement for countersteer to work? But if memory serves, a countersteer while it is leaned over will pull you right out of it. I will need to verify that some time.
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