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Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End Discuss Sportster Motorcycle Top End issues. Rockerboxes, Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Rings, Lift Rods, etc...

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  #11  
Old 4th January 2019
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I'm not completely versed but here are some interesting threads on the subject.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
Here is one from norseXL on venting.
He bypassed the pressure relief:
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1386341


http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...619616&page=47
Blocking off the bypass:
Jorgen found that his bypass valve was leaking thru when closed.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...619616&page=42
edit:
What is the criteria for how much oil 'should' be up top?
The oil is pressurized by the oil pump to get there.
Gravity and splash affect takes over once it's there.

Have you taken your oil pump apart to inspect for wear?
If the pump is weak, you will not get as much pressure up top either.
I have compiled some pics of the oil pump here in the Sportsterpedia.
The 86-90 disassembly article details some things to look for in regard to wear.:
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/techtalk:evoil03

Have you inspected and mic'd the rockers?
I'm working on an article at the moment regarding them.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...evo:engmech04b

Top end noise can come from several different sources at the same time.
No oil in the rockers could very well be a weak pressure relief spring as Aaron mentioned.
It could also start because of a stuck closed check valve or check ball (respectively) in the filter pad.
That would build up pressure until the relief popped off.
(which would route the oil into the gearcase and not up top)

But, there are other means for noise happen up top.
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Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia for additional technical information & advice

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 4th January 2019 at 21:18..
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  #12  
Old 4th January 2019
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Other Motorcycle Year: 1982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
I'm not completely versed but here are some interesting threads on the subject.





edit:
What is the criteria for how much oil 'should' be up top?
The oil is pressurized by the oil pump to get there.
Gravity and splash affect takes over once it's there.

Have you taken your oil pump apart to inspect for wear?
If the pump is weak, you will not get as much pressure up top either.
I have compiled some pics of the oil pump here in the Sportsterpedia.
The 86-90 disassembly article details some things to look for in regard to wear.:
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/techtalk:evoil03

Have you inspected and mic'd the rockers?
I'm working on an article at the moment regarding them.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...evo:engmech04b

Top end noise can come from several different sources at the same time.
No oil in the rockers could very well be a weak pressure relief spring as Aaron mentioned.
It could also start because of a stuck closed check valve or check ball (respectively) in the filter pad.
That would build up pressure until the relief popped off.
(which would route the oil into the gearcase and not up top)

But, there are other means for noise happen up top.
I rebuilt the pump. I used to rebuild hydraulic pumps. Some had gear rotors just like the Sportster oil pump, only bigger.

I've got to pull the front jug off and remove the cam cover again. So I will clean and mic everything again. It's been a long time since I've been in the cam chest. Might find something I missed.

Thanks for the input. Nobody mentioned the bypass valve before. I've got a feeling that's going to be the culprit.
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  #13  
Old 5th January 2019
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Good luck!
And let us know what you find.
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  #14  
Old 15th January 2019
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I spent the evening moving stuff around the garage so I could work on the Sporty. My garage is kinda packed. Since the rear jug is off, I decided to remove the front jug too. I'll hone, rering, and lap the valves. I'll also look at that bypass valve. I might make something that takes that out of the equation. I'll start on it this week and let you know how it goes.
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  #15  
Old 15th January 2019
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That reminds me. I gotta lot cleaning to do in my shop also.
Time...........
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  #16  
Old 16th January 2019
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I took the rear cylinder of several years ago. Put everything in a box. Looking at the parts in the box has reminded me of a few things.

First, I remember what the previous owner told me. He said he paid a guy to install the 1200 kit. Dude called him to pick up the bike. When he got there, the installer was out riding the bike. He said he could hear the bike and the guy was really wailing on it. Aparently this guy thinks breaking an engine in is to "ride it like you stole it".

I was looking at the wrist pin and it has a lot of premature wear. I have a set of new pin bushings and a reamer. The piston and cylinder look and measure OK. So I ordered rings, circlips, and new wrist pins. I already had the gaskets.

The rods seem to be OK. There's no excessive clearance up and down. So I think (hoping) the bottom end is OK.

I had to replace the cams early on because a lifter or tappet on the rear exhaust cam got stuck in the up position. This took out the cam, the lifter, and a rocker arm. I took the lifter apart and it was full of crud. So this makes me think the rough break in caused the oil bypass valve to open up at high RPM. As the engine was abused, I guess this forced metal to circulate through the engine unfiltered.

Years ago I changed out the cams, lifters, and rocker arms. I also cleaned out the oil tank and changed the filter a couple of times to help flush the engine out.

The reason I mention all this is because there is a correct way to break engines in. I'm wondering if I will find the same junk in the bypass valve as I found in the lifters ?

I couldn't get the cap off the filter housing with it on the bike. Checked the manual and it says it has to be removed from the engine. So I'll get that off and see what I have.
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  #17  
Old 21st January 2019
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I removed the oil filter. I have the old cartridge type check valve. Service manual says to update to check ball 26437-86A and spring 26436-86. Are these parts still available ? Can't seem to locate them
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  #18  
Old 21st January 2019
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The check valve should not have anything to do with not getting oil unless it's stuck in the closed position.
In which case, the oil light will stay on all the time... unless it's malfunctioning also.
You can do a simple test on the oil pressure switch also to make sure it's not stuck open and not signaling the oil light.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...:ref:svcproc30

On an opposite note.
Is the check valve leaking thru and causing wet sumping?
This would indicate either a weak spring inside the check or a stuck open position.

The check valve is a one piece design crimped near the top and internals are not replaceable.

You can soak it in solvent and work a small screwdriver in and out of the bottom (inlet) hole to make sure the spring is operating.
And reuse it as long as it is working.

According to HD Service Bulletin M-950 dated July 2, 1987,
L87 models were fitted with a (light brown) check ball and spring instead of a cartridge type check valve as in previous year models.
The original check ball was redesigned to a smaller version due to the bore size for it in the filter mount.
The new smaller size ball (26437-86A) was black and usable on 86-90 model Sportsters.
Some Sportster oil filter mounts with the original oil check ball may have had an undersized oil passageway.
The original check ball could stick causing reduced oil pressure and lifter noise.
The solution was to remove the original light brown check ball and either;
Install the new black check ball (26437-86A) and spring (26436-86).
Or, install the old style check valve (26435-76A) and it's O-ring (26433-77).
Affected crankcase numbers:
883 models: 1787063001-1787159608
1100 models: 1887062035-1887160608

So undoubtedly the MoCo was Ok using either the (new -86A) check ball or the old check valve at that point rather than the (-86) version.

77-85 models still use the check valve.
The MoCo just didn't support the check valve after awhile apparently.

But, the check ball -86A should still be available.
Have you checked Ronnies online?

rocketmangb had some pics of a new check ball and spring recently in this post.... well, last July.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.p...4&postcount=30

Last edited by Hippysmack; 21st January 2019 at 02:10..
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