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Sportster Motorcycle Transmission, Clutch, Primary & Secondary Drive Transmission, Clutch and primary or secondary drive problems, advice, and/or how tos.

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  #21  
Old 26th August 2018
Fast-Shovel Fast-Shovel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Speed View Post
Good to know about the smooth shifting! Even 4th to 3rd? Yes, Even 3rd & 4th

The primary tension also affects the hunt for neutral. That is an advantage of the Hayden tensioner; it makes finding neutral so easy.
I hadn't located or installed the Hayden, I know that there's one in the Shop somewhere?
The Wife & I took a 50 Mile Ride Last Night to go Out to Dinner.
11 Miles into the ride We rolled up to an Intersection, She Looked to me & Exclaimed
THIS F%KING BIKE SHIFTS LIKE BUTTER

While @ Dinner She talked about how it is like Riding a Hole NEW Bike & Cannot Believe the Difference.
She can Now Find Neutral While Rolling or Stopped & It shifts Effortlessly Threw the Gears with the 03 Forward Controls I'd install Years Ago.


I would Do it all over Again If the Need Ever Arrises for Another 4Speed.
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  #22  
Old 26th August 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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Quote:
THIS F%KING BIKE SHIFTS LIKE BUTTER
Great! Good result after all that work. The key has to be to keep those shift rollers from getting pinched.
It makes you wonder wonder why HD used such slack tolerances in the first place? I will have to get round
to fitting my modified tower.

Is the clutch pull OK now as well?

Be interested how you get on with the Hayden.

I just noticed that the HD paint on my NOS battery tray upgrade is coming off in sheets! It's only
been fitted two years. There's always something!
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  #23  
Old 27th August 2018
Fast-Shovel Fast-Shovel is offline
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The problem with the Rollers being a few Thousands OD over size is the Ramp Angles would causes the shift fork to rotate slightly.
The roller followed the Cam Plate Great (IT WAS SMOOTH) 1st thew 4th.
It was when you shifted 4th threw 1st, the Ramp Angles 3rd down to 2nd would side load the fork causing it to rotate and that intern would cause roller to jam. (2nd to 1st was good)
I'd modified that one fork's ID by building up one side with brazing rod & then milling it to a size that allowed the ID to follow the Gear Shaft with slight tolerance.

The end result was Excellent now everything Shifted as Should.

This was Preformed on one of the OEM standard Forks in the Name of Science.
The used forks where quite nice showing very little ware, However in order to achieve proper gear spacing I had used NOS forks 1 @ + .020 & 1 @ - .020.
NOS are Getting Hard to Find, so even although I had Great Results in Brazing.
I'd Decided not to Modify the Forks & OD Grind the Top Hats closer to the OEM Specs.

The Clutch pull is Good for her,
However I wasn't Adding things up Properly, The 3 Springs @ 70# = 210# not 221#, so that actually 18# less instead of 7#. thats Quite a few Pounds Difference.
I'm contacting Barnett today to discuss my findings.
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  #24  
Old 27th August 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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So in summary, if I have it correct, the most important modification to achieve shifting Nivarna is the tower bush. I hadn't noticed
rotation of the shifter fork but it would be hard to tell with so much slop coming from the tower bearing! I will have a look when I
install my modified tower. My shifter forks are steel. I'm not sure that makes much difference; perhaps they are a little stiffer.

Quote:
I've removed them & installed Only 3 70# springs. So it now has 210# on the Pressure Plate.
You had it correct when I read it! Maybe Barnett can come up with an ultra soft set of six springs for your Wife.

So, the remaining long term issue is that infernal 6009 bearing [and perhaps the fragile basket that can fail on modified engines].
As I said, the only viable option I have found is the SKF Explorer range which betters ISO standards and has about 15% higher
load rating. There may be a full complement 6009 available but that introduces other issues.

Forgot to check, did you run with Redline MTL? If so, it should limit any clutch drag when cold. I may try a mix of MLT and MT90
next time.
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  #25  
Old 27th August 2018
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Lol
The Barnett scorpion clutch in my 88 will give me tennis elbow if I try driving thru the city all day.
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  #26  
Old 27th August 2018
Fast-Shovel Fast-Shovel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Speed View Post
So in summary, if I have it correct, the most important modification to achieve shifting Nivarna is the tower bush.The Aluminum Bronze Bushing that I ran took up the play within the Tower & Pawl Carrier. But I only Created enough Clearance to be Lubed.
The Cam Plate Shaft into the Pawl Carrier is where the Side Play that I had came from.
If it hadn't been Riding Season, I would have had the Male & Female of the Pawl Carrier Hard Chrome Plated along with the Cam Plate Shaft.
That Would have allowed me to Hone & OD Grind my parts for Closer Tolerance. The Aluminum Bronze Bushing works really well With Hard Chrome.
I hadn't noticed
rotation of the shifter fork but it would be hard to tell with so much slop coming from the tower bearing! I will have a look when I
install my modified tower. My shifter forks are steel. I'm not sure that makes much difference; perhaps they are a little stiffer. It's not that they Flex, It's the Width of the Mouth / U that ride on the Main & Counter Shaft that allow the other end with the Rollers To Get out of Alignment.


You had it correct when I read it! Maybe Barnett can come up with an ultra soft set of six springs for your Wife.

So, the remaining long term issue is that infernal 6009 bearing [and perhaps the fragile basket that can fail on modified engines].
As I said, the only viable option I have found is the SKF Explorer range which betters ISO standards and has about 15% higher
load rating. There may be a full complement 6009 available but that introduces other issues.

Forgot to check, did you run with Redline MTL? YES If so, it should limit any clutch drag when cold. I may try a mix of MLT and MT90
next time.
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  #27  
Old 27th August 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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I am sure you are right that hard chrome would be better still but maybe it is a diminishing return.
What you have done evidently works and is already better than it left the factory! My modified tower
has just a thin hard bronze bush like yours. I can't remember exactly what the play was (measured
at the edge of my shifter cam plate) but it was something like 0.01"! With the hard bush I see ±.002".

Quote:
It's not that they Flex, It's the Width of the Mouth
I followed what you are saying. I meant that I hadn't noticed that issue. I don't know if that is because
the steel forks had different tolerances; it wouldn't surprise me. I will have look when I strip it down again.

I think MTL is an excellent lube (use it in my BMW and Mercedes). I opted for MT90 to stay nearer HDs
viscosity specs.
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