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  #341  
Old 2nd July 2022
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all you proved was you saw bubbles, does not explain how they got there, you do not even know if they are imploding or exploding. there is a BIG DIFF!!!
why all the pipe theory since you are dealing with the pump????
even a car engine needs help, hence a vacuum supply.
is there a possibility of cavitation besides the pump???? within the engine????
is it possible for bubbles to be pressured out and the immediately pulled back in????
i admire your efforts but so far all we know is, well yes, it does pump oil.
the ole saying "what happens in vegas, stays in vegas". apply that to your pump.
also, what type of gaseous bubble source are they, remember there are three ways for gaseous elements to be entrained in the oil, all diff and some mixed.
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  #342  
Old 2nd July 2022
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Why all the fluid dynamics?
Because these things do affect the oiling system.
The pressure rises when you pull the throttle but that doesn't mean you are pushing full volume thru the motor.
It also doesn't mean anything about slippage.
I would think it would take a blockage of sorts to cavitate the feed passage in the motor.
The restrictions are pre-determined to run without cavitation.
Keeping me on my toes is one thing but denying the facts above are futile.
Just because they happened on a test bench doesn't mean they never happen in operation.
You know, a certified welder will never be able to approve a shade tree weld that never breaks.
Is that the case here?

You tell me about the stages of bubbles. Don't ask me to uncover mysteries of the universe all by myself.
You act like you know everything but so far all you've given is "why don't I know everything".
Stop asking questions and start giving answers and I think I'll learn more.
It's really not fair to downplay what I've done so far.
I don't have professional equipment that maybe you are used to using.
That doesn't make my efforts any less worthy.
I'm asking you to put up or shut up.
Up to it?
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  #343  
Old 2nd July 2022
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I do know how the bubbles got there.
Initially, they were just air bubbles that couldn't leave as they got caught in the recirculation zone past the tee for the vac line.
BUT if you paid attention, you'd see in the video where I clamped the hose with seemingly nothing but oil in the line, bubbles appeared out of nowhere.
edit:
This video @ 1:29, below the pliers, no air. Above the pliers air pocket forms cause of the restriction.
http://www.sportsterpedia.com/lib/ex...hippysmack.png
In the video, the bubbles got smaller as speed was increased, just as they should.

Small amounts of air are traveling with the oil. The restriction pulled the bubbles out of the oil stream.
Yes I do know that they are expanding. It's just air.
It's not vapor. If it were vapor, it'd have time to reform into the oil before it got to the pump.
Pipe theory as you put it is part of this thread.
I've been doing mods on the test bed that involved sealing so in my spare time, I went back into fluid dynamics.

The point of that video is that air that I created due to both the restricted tee and crimping down the hose at different speeds, that is what happens when oil is pulled from the sump, past the hard 90 degree bend and sent thru the horizontal passage to the pump.
Because the passage carries both air and oil, air will get caught up in the recirculaion zones in the return path just like in the video.
The duck bill is a collection chamber (for coalescence) to allow oil to settle down before going into the pump.
Any turbulence at the inlet hole will be greater once it gets in the return cavity.
There IS more vacuum inside the pump than in the return passage.
The video shows grinding noises at high speed.
These grinding noises are synonymous with cavitational potential.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 3rd July 2022 at 03:48..
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  #344  
Old 3rd July 2022
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This......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
….. is tied to this.
The higher the vacuum from the pump, the higher the friction on oil flow in the sump passage to the pump.
Higher friction slows the flow and bustert, you mentioned before about whether the cavities are getting filled.
Slowing the flow due to too much friction will not fill the cavities fully.

I have the 98 pump mounted but I'll eventually have a pic of all the return inlet cavities together.
The bigger inlet hole slows down the oil coming from the sump to pump.
Slows the affects of friction by lower speed via lowering vacuum.
Seems pump manufs are anal about hose size on the incoming inlet to the pump due to the increased speed and thus FRICTION.

At the same time, the 98 pump got a smaller inlet cavity (which increases vacuum inside the pump).
So they increased vacuum on the sump port (increasing internal vacuum)then lowered that vacuum on the return passage itself from the sump.
The sump inlet cavity had to get smaller so they could split the vacuum for the cam port inlet.
The gerotor's max vacuum capability (before cavitating) had to have something to do with that.
I'm hoping I can show that in testing.
Then the cam port inlet cavity is smaller than the sump port cavity.
I can tell you now that that little cam port inlet at the top of the pump is one large sucker.
I've got oil on both sides of the cam box inlet but no oil in the inlet hole itself to speak of during operation.
It's sucking the oil in so hard, I had to raise the supply bucket 3-4 feet above the pump to have enough supply line flow keep it from singing due sucking more oil than could be delivered.
Just haven't gotten the flow adjusted yet, every time I cut off the drill, the bathtub floods.
I can't plug off the cam port like I wanted to.
I'm getting tons of air in the return line due to the cam port being open and basically off/on dry.
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  #345  
Old 3rd July 2022
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really have not looked at the video, of no interest since it proves nothing. this is not real world. gaseous is gaseous air or no matter what.
so answer the "?" are they imploding or exploding or combination there of. the eye can see about 40 micron size.
you cannot prove the source since you do not know what the 3 forms of gaseous situations that can be there.
there are toooo many variables that you cannot account for. the ole adage is " if one part of the equation is false then the whole theory is false.
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  #346  
Old 3rd July 2022
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Ok, it appears to be air.
If it's gaseous, it's not reforming, it's being carried thru the pump and back to the bucket.

That's great.
You out here making claims about my little factory here and don't even view the videos??
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  #347  
Old 3rd July 2022
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A reservoir (or bathtub) was constructed to feed oil to the cam port inlet in the top of the pump.
A short piece of 1-1/2“ pipe was cut and and finished on the ends with cut pieces of flange paipe pressed into the 1-1/2” pipe.
Then the joints inside were sealed with 5 minute epoxy followed by POR 15 on the bottom and inside to seal the bathtub to the aluminum bed.
A tap was made in the side of the pipe for a 1/8“ NPT x 3/8” hose bibb fitting.



Here is the initial run showing air coming into the cam port inlet.
I have to seal that bathtub though so I can compare to the 97 pump.

http://www.sportsterpedia.com/lib/ex...hippysmack.mp4
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  #348  
Old 4th July 2022
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OK, got a problem.
I fired up the pump trying to plug the cam port and knocked off a piece of something into the pump.
I believe it was part of the rubber cap.
I could find anything significant in the pump when I took it apart.
The pump locked up so I took it apart to find the return gerotors wouldn't turn.
I removed and cleaned them and didn't see any damage.
Put the pump back together and it spins fine.
But, the pump locking up ate the inside of the rubber cap so now it slips pretty bad.
The oil being on top of the pump spits oil up between the gear and the rubber causing it to slip.

The gear OD is app 1.22" and I don't have a socket that will fit it.
Anybody got an ideas on what I can turn the pump with?
I have one more rubber cap but the oil on top will cause this again.
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  #349  
Old 5th July 2022
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Have a lathe?
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  #350  
Old 5th July 2022
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Sadly, no metal lathe.
I had first thought of a split collar bored to exact gear OD sliced around the gear and bolted.
But I no longer have access to shop equipment.
I'll probably just use the other rubber cap and try and shield the bottom of the gear.
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