The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions Advice, questions, and tips for 1200, 1250, 1340, 1450 etc... for Sportster and Buell motorcycle engine conversions

Active Threads
0 Corona Virus
Last Post: Kbetts
Posted On: 39 Minutes Ago
Replies: 306
Views: 15,378
0 1960 XLCH in the UK
Last Post: chilly
Posted On: 48 Minutes Ago
Replies: 247
Views: 28,809
0 Upside Down Monoshock IH - A Longterm Project
Last Post: chilly
Posted On: 51 Minutes Ago
Replies: 172
Views: 34,593
0 Bigger rear Pulley
Last Post: Bikeaholic
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 42
Views: 2,659
0 My take on the world ~ Photo by Trace
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,027
Views: 140,256
0 Help, Headlight out and fuse thing clicks?
Last Post: krsanky
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 358
0 Don't drive angry
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 51
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: ronccc
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 17,822
Views: 1,796,791
0 Sportster cv carb tuning after upgrades.
Last Post: Granty
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 48
0 Sportster fans, tell us why!
Last Post: rich56
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 605
Views: 169,653
0 Front cylinder base gasket leak
Last Post: BigMek
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 648
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Yakcm2
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 16,215
Views: 923,788
0 FNG from Oregon
Last Post: noexuses
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 175
0 Resto-Repair 84 ironhead
Last Post: BigMek
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 598
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Bone
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 6,731
Views: 928,992
0 Talk to me about Painting
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 261
0 One Year
Last Post: John Harper
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 580
0 Diagnostic code ?
Last Post: mick42
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 452
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 46,792
Views: 7,455,068
0 Solenoid issue?
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 439
0 My blow through turbo XL1200C
Last Post: Jason's Sporty
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 355
0 Never seen this before...
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 48
Views: 4,193
0 Rear Axle Nut Torque Spec.
Last Post: HHDS113
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 30,610
0 muffler balance pipe
Last Post: Joe_jeep
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 526
0 Help me identify this bike
Last Post: rejeanprimeau
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 588
0 USA made Stainless hardware better than stock
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 899
6 SPORTY BOBBER PICTURES
Last Post: jazzman
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 6,031
Views: 5,488,411
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: joes95bobber
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 4,597
Views: 589,815
0 Mikuni 42 on 883
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 47
Views: 1,579
1 Sportster's they are just sexy
Last Post: Joe_jeep
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 935
More...
Members Birthdays
paxman1, bkdyson (64), kd4tsc (64), Donson56 (64), BrnAgn, Sandman (57), AREA, The_Bishop (48), Delzore (48), dwrains (39), relykz (38)
Tags
install, no start, woods cams

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 30th September 2008
groovemeisterus's Avatar
groovemeisterus groovemeisterus is offline
Land Speed Record
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 731
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883-1200 Branch Build
Sportster/Buell Year: 2000
Reputation: 8721
groovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of light
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
The W8S has really low TDC lifts ... .183 & .176. These numbers would normally not be a problem with respect to piston to valve or valve to valve contact. However, since you're using 883 heads, without making the measurements, you can't rule it out. 883 heads have longer valves and therefore the valves start out a lot closer to the piston and a lot closer to each other, particularly when larger diameter valves are installed. Much depends on how Branch set up the heads.
Thanks... I'm gonna have to call them and double check for the cams I chose.
Never thought about 883s being that different than 1200 heads with valves.
But now that you mention it, I think I remember maybe reading somewhere
that the valve angles are different than 1200s, but don't remember and can't
find where I read that. Maybe I am thinking of the older shovel heads though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
The other big thing of course is how much valve travel you have available. Coil bind clearance and also retainer to guide clearance could be an issue. Again, not knowing anything about how your heads are set up, I can't say.
I'm pretty sure my springs are set up to allow up to a .650" lift.
http://www.branchokeefe.com/heads.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
This is one of the reasons head shops always want to know what cams you'll be using. They can make sure you've got adequate travel, a spring pack that's up to the job, and enough valve to valve clearance.
I guess my mistake was I was still using my stock cams at the time had heads
ported while researching which cams might go well my my engine combo.
But did make sure I had at least the capability of up to .650 lift cams.

I most likely will get some new lifters also since already working in that
area. Does make since with higher lift cams.

The more I get to higher performance the more I learn I should double
and triple check everything before final assembly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
One more thing, on a 2000 motor your pinion race sticks out quite a bit more than a 91-99, and as such, a tall lobe like that will try to run into the pinion race:
That I did do. "But" only after spinning the cams all the way around
by hand and finding out that they did make contact(accidentally). I was so tunnel visioned about the basic clearance for lobes while grinding my cam case I didn't even
notice till all done that the cams did in deed hit the pinion. So I went ahead
and slowly but surely grinded as best as possible to have clearance. So
I don't think that is an issue.

Dirty pict( before clean up)... but you might be able to see the grind/clearanced marks


Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
But neither of those things likely caused your pushrods to get bent. Some kind of mechanical interference took place.
I am assuming the worst for valve to piston or valve to valve contact.
Valve to piston should be easily seen. But valve to valve I'm not
for sure if I need to compress the springs to extend the valves to look
for contact marks though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
Bottom line, even though those TDC lifts are moderate and that takes pressure off the Valve to piston and valve to valve issues, at .590 total lift you're getting up there enough that you've got to check some other things. I highly recommend that you read and understand both of these articles:

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_xlcaminstall.shtml

http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_valvetopiston.shtml

Good luck.
Thanks much aswracing for your input. I'll read and study your articles.
I was so anxious to get riding that day that I probably wasn't thinking
straight and rushed, and now I won't be riding till new pushrods arrive, and problem
figured out. Now I wish I would have taken the time to check things thoroughly.

Lesson learned. No matter how anxious you are to try out new parts... always double and triple check, and even take notes from the porter or cam manufacture for things to look out for if you are building part
by part at a time $$$ wise until you get determine a decent combo from different
manufactures, as compared to a whole combo already matched.
Buy a part and time goes by and one forgets what was said months ago.


I'm still learning, have been searching for a custom combo that
no one else has just to be different I guess.

Thanks everyone for your input. After I get done taking whole engine
apart, I'll post some picts if I (prob will) find the metal contact that bent
my intake rods. I don't think my exhaust rods are bent since no play.
But should'nt hold my breath until all is taken apart and examined.

Thanks again everyone.

__________________
883 XL Y2K - BLACK,Ported Manifold,HSR 42mm Carb,Branch #5 Ported 883 Heads,Bob Woods W8S 0.590" Cams, SE -0.050" Perfect Fit Pushrods,SE 1200 Ignition Module ,Vance & Hines Straight Shot Exhaust,07 SE Air Cleaner,SE 40,000V Red Perf Coil,883 Jugs Precision Bored for Branch 30º Domed Pistons,& One Big Smile ;o), ~83TQ, ~83HP for now.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30th September 2008
AussieGazza's Avatar
AussieGazza AussieGazza is offline
Proud 2000 XLH 1430 Owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bywong
Posts: 1,692
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH 1430
Sportster/Buell Year: 2000
Other Motorcycle Model: Piaggio X9 250
Other Motorcycle Year: 2004
Reputation: 4032
AussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really niceAussieGazza is just really nice
Default

Great post. Hope it all comes together.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] AussieGarry

I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are missing (but on order from EBay).

Supertrapp 2-1 with 18 plates and closed end cap, 11.5" 412 Progressive with Heavy Duty springs and Progressive fork springs. Mikuni 45carb/SE 44 manifold. NRHS 88" with Stage 2 ported 04 heads with 15 degree squish band, SE .536 cams, crane roller rockers and lifters, NRHS Hurricane Adj Pushrods and Collapsible Covers. Ultima prog ign. 180 main jet, 3 turns, 20 idle jet and 97 needle at 3rd notch. AIM 240 Clutch. LRB Z Plus Brake Pads on dual front brakes. Kuryakyn Boss Blade Levers + Forcewinder XR A/C.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30th September 2008
drummerboy4as's Avatar
drummerboy4as drummerboy4as is offline
Senior Chief Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Citrus Heights
Posts: 991
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883 - 1250
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Reputation: 7418
drummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nicedrummerboy4as is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovemeisterus View Post
Branch 30 degree domed piston


Well there's your problem! The pistons in up side over!

883 branch ported Head Chamber


Damn that's pretty
I'm sorry to hear you have to pull the thing apart. I've been there and it sucks. Look on the bright side, I'm not sure where you live, but here in California it's starting to get cold in rainy, good winter project if you have a garage that is
__________________
EP  Up the Irons!
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dwJB1XBl.jpg[/IMG]
"Take most people, they're crazy about cars. They worry if they get a little scratch on them, and they're always talking about how many miles they get to a gallon, and if they get a brand-new car already they start thinking about trading it in for one that's even newer. I don't even like old cars. I mean they don't even interest me. I'd rather have a goddam horse. A horse is at least human, for God's sake." ~ Holden Caulfield

[URL="http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=175003"]Link to my NRHS build thread[/URL]

Have wrapped exhaust? [URL="http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=544763"]Please read[/URL]
[QUOTE=khaskins;2765309]"my bike scares the cars and they scream like little girls"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rottenralph;1773182]Bees and balls don't mix.[/QUOTE]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 30th September 2008
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 10,138
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 2952527
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovemeisterus View Post
But now that you mention it, I think I remember maybe reading somewhere
that the valve angles are different than 1200s, but don't remember and can't
find where I read that.
Angles are the same between 1200 & 883. 27 degrees on the intake and 31 on the exhaust.

But the 883 valves are longer, to go with the shallower chamber of the 883 head. Therefore when sitting on the seats, they're closer to the piston than a 1200's valves are. You can run out of piston to valve clearance in a hurry. A set of cams that provides ample valve to piston clearance when used with 1200 heads doesn't always have enough when used with 883 heads.

They're also sitting closer to each other. The stock valves are quite a bit smaller diameter than the 1200 valves so this is not an issue with them. But when you start putting bigger valves into 883 heads, it becomes a big issue. Again, you can run out of valve to valve clearance in a hurry.

From looking at your heads, it appears Branch may have removed all 4 seats and put new ones in deeper and used 1200 length valves. But I can't be certain without making the measurements.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure my springs are set up to allow up to a .650" lift.
That could be, but you still have to think about valve to valve clearance. Like valve-to-piston clearance, valve-to-valve clearance doesn't have anything to do with max lift, instead it's a function of TDC lift.

The TDC lift figures on the W8S are quite a bit bigger than the stock "D" cams, but they're still mild in the world of performance cams. Milder than many bolt-in cams, in fact.

Quote:
So I went ahead
and slowly but surely grinded as best as possible to have clearance. So
I don't think that is an issue.
I hope not. But I've seen people really screw up that pinion bearing trying to cut on the race, and that of course requires a full teardown to fix. It doesn't take much grit to ruin that bearing and it's almost impossible to cut it without getting grit in it. That's why I tell people you're much better off to chamfer the lobe:



Quote:
I am assuming the worst for valve to piston or valve to valve contact.
Valve to piston should be easily seen. But valve to valve I'm not
for sure if I need to compress the springs to extend the valves to look
for contact marks though.
Checking valve to piston is best done with clay, as shown in the cam install article. Checking valve to valve does require opening the valves to the TDC lift figure. This is typically accomplished on an assembled head using a fixture that Ron Trock sells:



The fixture also mounts dial indicators for precise measurement of how much each valve is open. Besides checking valve to valve, it's also handy for flow testing a head at various lift points, and for checking total available travel.

But, it can be done without this fixture, if you have a valve spring compressor and can get the keepers off. Without the spring pressure, you can manually open each valve to the TDC lift figure using a caliper for the measurement. Then just measure the distance between the valves with feeler gauges.

I'm very curious as to why Bob recommends adjustable pushrods. IMO, the only reason to run adjustables is if you use a travel limited lifter, i.e. a solid or Hydrosolid, where you need a precise pushrod length. A standard hydraulic lifter has .200 of travel and will work well over about .100 of that range, from .050 to .150 preloaded when cold. So it's not that picky on the pushrod length. Fixed length pushrods are lighter and stronger and don't require expensive collapsible tube kits and don't have as many rub problems. It's just a matter of getting them the correct length, but they're readily available in any length you want, and at a lower price than adjustables. Bob's cams are all stock base circle anyway, so to the extent you need a custom length it's not because of the cams, it's because of things like altered stem protrusions, head decking, and/or thinner gaskets.

Last edited by aswracing; 30th September 2008 at 13:46..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 30th September 2008
Jt1200r Jt1200r is offline
Senior Chief Master Mechanic 1st Class
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Huntingtown,Md
Posts: 1,212
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200r
Sportster/Buell Year: 2004
Jt1200r has disabled reputation
Default

if the exhaust pushrods were installed on the intake . would they get bent like that?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 1st October 2008
groovemeisterus's Avatar
groovemeisterus groovemeisterus is offline
Land Speed Record
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 731
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883-1200 Branch Build
Sportster/Buell Year: 2000
Reputation: 8721
groovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of light
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jt1200r View Post
if the exhaust pushrods were installed on the intake . would they get bent like that?

Thanks, but they were installed in the proper locations.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 1st October 2008
groovemeisterus's Avatar
groovemeisterus groovemeisterus is offline
Land Speed Record
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 731
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883-1200 Branch Build
Sportster/Buell Year: 2000
Reputation: 8721
groovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of lightgroovemeisterus is a glorious beacon of light
Lightbulb

Thanks everyone for their feedback,
and especially to
ASWRACING for their detailed picts and knowledge.

I called and talked with Branch today, and they mentioned
that with these cams that I prob would have problems.

They mentioned after I told him of my delima that
I think the valves would need to be set deeper I think
to make clearance like aswracing mentioned.

I just woke from a nap and can't remember every detail.

But all in all, he said my pistons should be ok if there was
any contact, but that the valves are probably shot, but won't
know for sure until I tear down. It's getting in the low 40s here
in Indiana at night and luckily I have a heated garage to find and fix my mistake.

Before any tear down, gonna do a compression test just to
see. Then tear down and inspect, and then do what needs
to be done to get heads back in order and double triple
check that if/when I send back to branch that all is
set up accordingly with the style of cam I want to use (W8S this time)
so can hopefully just bolt heads on.

Thanks again everyone. This time I am gonna take it slow and easy.

Hope this shows others that it is not a great idea to rush things.

I'll get back with some picts when I get tore apart, and update when all
is well with a dyno.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 1st October 2008
Quay Quay is offline
Senior Chief Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bremerton, Wa.
Posts: 1,048
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200R
Sportster/Buell Year: '07
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell XB12Ss
Sportster/Buell Year #2: '09
Other Motorcycle Model: Hayabusa
Other Motorcycle Year: '99
Reputation: 3406
Quay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the roughQuay is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovemeisterus View Post
Hope this shows others that it is not a great idea to rush things.
Hopefully, it was merely lack of lifter travel that bent the pushrod.

This should be a "must-read" for folks new to engine building. It's probably very fortunate the engine failed to fire.

Read info and ask questions. Thanks to meticulous professionals such as NRHS and Axtell, etc., along with knowledgeable laypersons, the XLForum has one of the best online sources of detailed performance and maintenance issues on the net.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 1st October 2008
Erik's Avatar
Erik Erik is offline
Senior Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 2,801
Sportster/Buell Model: SOLD 883/1200 Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year: 1992
Sportster/Buell Model #2: -
Sportster/Buell Year #2: -
Other Motorcycle Model: KTM 990 SMT
Other Motorcycle Year: 2009
Reputation: 46196
Erik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to beholdErik is a splendid one to behold
Default

Sorry to hear you had to go through all this, Groovemeister.
I hope everything turns out for the best further down the road for you.

Good luck.
__________________
Erik
(A Dutch Rider)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 1st October 2008
misterT's Avatar
misterT misterT is offline
Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: northern IN.
Posts: 3,336
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200R 90+HP
Sportster/Buell Year: 2004
Sportster/Buell Model #2: 2276cc VW sandrail
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1976
Reputation: 9984
misterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of lightmisterT is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Hope you get that back together soon, I will be very interested in seeing what kind of dyno numbers that combo produces. I didn't even know that Woods made cams for the sporty engines. All the articles in American Iron about them never even mention anything about cams for a sporty. Just goes to show how biased the whole industry is. Good luck with that hope it turns out good for you.
__________________
04 1200R 90+HP/10.5-1 SE pistons/.536 cams/Heads by MR T/mikuni HSR 42 w/25 pilot, 96 needle, 170 main/TC88A ignition w turbotas mod 33 map pos.4/ Supertrapp 2-1 w 23 disks/ 28T FRONT PULLEY /NRHS Hurricane A/C & adj. pushrods /progressive 440 shocks & fork springs w/10 OZ SE fork oil
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC