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  #21  
Old 21st December 2016
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1216531
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
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well red is elusive for sure. the first patent issued to him as far as I can tell from brief research was in 1978, pat# 3709469, which was for the electron. he did partnered up with several people and formed multiple companies. the posa, pat# 3957930, was issued to james Birmingham, in collaboration?, who knows.
in around 1947, Ronald gardner was making this style carb and perhaps why red never applied for patent. in his later years, there are many patents.
the lake was never designed for aircraft, the posa factory would modify a unit for that application which for sure included a more secure means of control. his early years may remain a mystery as I believe he past on about 10 years ago or so.
I did run across an interesting factoid and maybe this is where aircraft could have been involved. a similar unit was used but with the aid of compressed air which forced fuel through the unit and helped atomize the fuel. the lake used a tapered needle to try and match fuel delivery (gravity/specific weight and hydro-static head) to a non-linear air delivery.
so I guess you are correct in that there is no smoking gun. not worth the time to look into corporate records even if they exist.
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  #22  
Old 21st December 2016
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bustert bustert is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
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well a little more digging:
the patent pending marked on the bodies were probably in relation to application # 7880 on feb 2, 1970 and granted jan 9, 1973. the publication # US3709469A explains the concept.
as was alluded to, red did invent many things but he was not always the one who received the grant as in this case carter carried the assignee. this is not unusual. when working for a company and you invent something, many laws give claim to the company first. my father invented many sub-sea tools used today and received royalities when some one used the tool but he did not own them. so if you invent something, let your wife take claim, hummm, still might get the shaft instead of the gold mine if the marriage goes south.
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  #23  
Old 22nd December 2016
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Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
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Originally Posted by bustert View Post
well a little more digging:
the patent pending marked on the bodies were probably in relation to application # 7880 on feb 2, 1970 and granted jan 9, 1973. the publication # US3709469A explains the concept.
as was alluded to, red did invent many things but he was not always the one who received the grant as in this case carter carried the assignee. this is not unusual. when working for a company and you invent something, many laws give claim to the company first. my father invented many sub-sea tools used today and received royalities when some one used the tool but he did not own them. so if you invent something, let your wife take claim, hummm, still might get the shaft instead of the gold mine if the marriage goes south.
Sorry, I got tied up in the history section. So, officially, we don't have an origin for the lake? But we know it had at least a brief history in the 70s and noteworthy as such. Can you write an epitaph for me based off your findings and I'll include it?
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  #24  
Old 22nd December 2016
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bustert bustert is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
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Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
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ok, I down loaded the patent in pdf I can send you if I have an address. this is the final grant dated in 1973 but was first applied for back in 1970. of course it probably was proto-typed earlier before the patent was applied for. the final draft was awarded to carter (we know where carter carbs come from) as the assignee but lists ole bill as the inventor.
this falls in line with the lake being a sales item in the media starting in 1973. they did produce the unit before hand and those units were marked patent pending. perhaps it was carter that marketed them and was the assignee, ???. I am assuming they were made on as ordered basic before hand as the lake was an all machined unit, later models that ran off the idea were cast and therefore cheap to make.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j...82524358262201

post#7

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  #25  
Old 29th December 2016
The Doctor71 The Doctor71 is offline
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1971
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 41989
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Hippysmack....

My Tillotson Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0-%20Tillotson

My Bendix Zenith Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0Zenith%20carb

Not many good shots of the Bendix installed on my '74 XLH. Most are on the bench, when I went thru a rebuild.

Anyway, browse thru my library(s) and pick / discard what you like. If you'd like some better pics of either, I could that too. Just hit me back.

HTH.
Doc71

EDIT: Hippysmack, I'm in the process of trashing my photobucket account, so the links to my photobucket library won't stay live for very much longer.

My updated libraries are now live on Flickr:Let me know if you have trouble accessing those links.

Last edited by The Doctor71; 13th February 2018 at 04:54.. Reason: updated links to pics - trashed PB
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  #26  
Old 29th December 2016
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Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
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Originally Posted by The Doctor71 View Post
Hippysmack....

My Tillotson Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0-%20Tillotson

My Bendix Zenith Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0Zenith%20carb

Not many good shots of the Bendix installed on my '74 XLH. Most are on the bench, when I went thru a rebuild.

Anyway, browse thru my library(s) and pick / discard what you like. If you'd like some better pics of either, I could that too. Just hit me back.

HTH.
Doc71
Thank you very, very much sir. I will get them up tomorrow and credit you with the pics.

Wayne
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  #27  
Old 29th December 2016
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 1800581
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor71 View Post
Hippysmack....

My Tillotson Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0-%20Tillotson

My Bendix Zenith Library --> http://s376.photobucket.com/user/xlc...0Zenith%20carb
HTH.
Doc71
They are up. I hope I did them justice.
Thanks again for your help and support.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/h...arburetor_pics
scroll down for the Bendix/Zenith pics
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  #28  
Old 30th December 2016
The Doctor71 The Doctor71 is offline
Chief Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1971
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 41989
The Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to beholdThe Doctor71 is a splendid one to behold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
They are up. I hope I did them justice.
Thanks again for your help and support.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/h...arburetor_pics
scroll down for the Bendix/Zenith pics
Cool. My pleasure.

Sorta wish I had some better pictures of the carbs installed, rather than in various stages of re-build..... and the junk on my bench in my background doesn't help. Let me see what I can do over the next week. I'll get back to you.
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  #29  
Old 30th December 2016
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Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
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Originally Posted by The Doctor71 View Post
Cool. My pleasure.

Sorta wish I had some better pictures of the carbs installed, rather than in various stages of re-build..... and the junk on my bench in my background doesn't help. Let me see what I can do over the next week. I'll get back to you.
I actually like the shop looking like it's actually used to build things. Squeeky clean shop pics make you wonder what the shop is actually use for. I'm open to however you want to present them. Thanks for your help. Good way to show how to hold a carb up for rebuilding too.
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