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  #411  
Old 9th November 2018
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Originally Posted by Toejam503 View Post
North Dakota Measure 3 "Legalization of Recreational Marijuana" lost in the election, yesterday (59%-41%). I hope they (pot people) put their efforts into decriminalizing it, maybe they'll get somewhere next time.

yeah but also Michigan voters just legalized recreational use in the midterms and Utah and Missouri voters just legalized it for medical.


Regardless of what peoples stance on it is, legalization is happening faster and faster. The science research and studies on it are one good reason that it is happening at a faster pace. That data alone should be enough to show criminalization for the farce and profiteering that it is.


you still have to take into account that there are corporations who also face a substantial loss to revenue when marijuana is legalized. the 5 biggest ones i already mentioned. but they are not the only ones. profit is like food, water and shelter to a corporation and when that is threatened they'll do whatever it takes to maintain profit. big pharma counts profit first then the bodies later. the amounts they have to pay for in death is insubstantial to the amount of profit they rake in. this is off on a tangent but by far the worst example i can think of is when bayer realized that two of its blood products Factor VIII and IX were contaminated with HIV. they decided not to destroy the product because the financial investment was too large. they knew they couldn't continue to sell the product in the U.S. anymore so instead they sold the product overseas so they wouldn't lose profit. bayer shouldn't even exist as a company anymore, the board of directors at the time should have been hung for knowingly infecting people with HIV because they didn't want to lose profit.


so far 33 states have legalized marijuana in some form. 10 of those and the district of columbia have legalized recreational use.


decriminalization started in 1973. medical use legalization started in 1996. the first 2 recreational use states legalized it in 2012. so just 6 years later we have 10 states and the district of columbia that have legalized it for recreational use.


frankly it's going to happen whether people like it or not. and frankly it's past time that it should be. if it was legal in the first place my brother most likely would still be here and not have committed suicide because the only thing he had access to legally was dangerous SSRIs and MAOIs which drastically increase suicide rates in those who take them as well as having to worry about drug tests.

Last edited by tigger; 9th November 2018 at 04:19..
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  #412  
Old 9th November 2018
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Great, get everybody stoned so the government can tell you when to munch.
This country is going to shit!

I've had a very illustrious career of drugs when I was younger.
I'm old enough now to know what I missed.

I've had many friends burn out and they are no longer with us.

Life's short. Don't waste it.
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  #413  
Old 9th November 2018
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Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
Great, get everybody stoned so the government can tell you when to munch.
This country is going to shit!

I've had a very illustrious career of drugs when I was younger.
I'm old enough now to know what I missed.

I've had many friends burn out and they are no longer with us.

Life's short. Don't waste it.

yeah this country is going to shit but it has little to do with marijuana legalization.

read 'democracy in america' by alexis de tocqueville,

'brave new world' by aldous huxley,

'amusing ourselves to death' by neil postman,

'the underground history of american education' by john taylor gatto,

'the shallows' by nicholas carr and

'the deliberate dumbing down of america' by charlotte thomson iserbyt

only one of them is fiction.

'democracy in america' hits the nail on the head and may as well be prophecy that has come true. which makes it even more interesting since it was published in 1835. soft despotism and a tyranny of the majority being the major themes.

and then there is 'amusing ourselves to death' published in 1985 by neil postman which is another prophetic look at how our society would degenerate. apply his concepts to smart phones and the internet and your outlook on the ways things are will become very grim indeed.



no one is wasting their life by having marijuana legalized. but there are millions that have had their lives wasted because it is illegal without any scientific justification to back it up, only racist and profiteering roots to hang on that peg.

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There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason it will never, ever, ever be fixed.

It’s never going to get any better, don’t look for it, be happy with what you’ve got.

Because the owners, the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the big owners! The Wealthy… the real owners! The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions.

Forget the politicians. They are irrelevant. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice! You have owners! They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want:

They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That's against their interests.

That'ss right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting xxxxed by a system that threw them overboard 30 xxxxing years ago. They don’t want that!

You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shitty jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this xxxxing place! It's a big club, and you ain’t in it! You, and I, are not in the big club.
― George Carlin a comedian spitting more truth than most people realize or can handle.

and those books i listed tell you how they made a nation full of people who are not well educated and capable of critical thinking. that's why this country is going to shit.

Last edited by tigger; 9th November 2018 at 15:14..
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  #414  
Old 9th November 2018
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The plight of those illegally getting stoned is a reach at best. For a few, why don't they just use THC pills? Seems a much healthier way to get what they need. For those who use it "recreationally", the lack of respect for the law means they are telling their fellow citizens to "F-off, you morons" .... all the while doing far more damage to others and themselves for the sake of being stoned.... Yes, I've been personally harmed multiple times by people who are high.

Quit smoking for a year and get back to us.

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  #415  
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tigger all of your research means nothing.
Not trying to knock what your pushing but I've lived it.

It's like telling a returning war soldier that guns don't protect you.

Grass is not the way to survive.
It's a way to escape.

Period.

I don't want people around me that are trying to escape the world.
I've long distanced myself from that.
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  #416  
Old 9th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbetts View Post
The plight of those illegally getting stoned is a reach at best. For a few, why don't they just use THC pills? Seems a much healthier way to get what they need. For those who use it "recreationally", the lack of respect for the law means they are telling their fellow citizens to "F-off, you morons" .... all the while doing far more damage to others and themselves for the sake of being stoned.... Yes, I've been personally harmed multiple times by people who are high.

Quit smoking for a year and get back to us.

Unsubscribed.
a reach at best you say? how so .. having millions imprisoned for a victimless crime? having millions imprisoned for reasons which aren't supported by the data scientific studies and research has gathered on the topic. it seems to me any adverse effects are handled better by medical doctors and not prison time. some of the biggest studies on marijuana conclude this as well. maybe you need to read this latest study on marijuana that has looked at over 10,000 previous studies on marijuana and its affect on health if the healthiness of marijuana be it smoking or oil is truly a concern for you. http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/rep...nabinoids.aspx
tobacco use alone and its health affects kills more people per year than alcohol, AIDS, car accidents, illegal drugs, murders, and suicides combined. tobacco and alochol caused fatalities themselves are more than all illegal drugs combined.

your mention of a lack of respect for the law is a reach. we have a nation of lawbreakers, just drive down the road on any given day and notice the amount of people breaking the law by speeding. and all for the sake of getting somewhere as fast as they can with no regard for the people around them. speeding is the second highest cause of automobile and motorcycle fatalities behind alcohol and more often than not the two go hand in hand and are both against the law.

honestly i think if you've been harmed multiple times by people that are high it has more to do with the people themselves and who they are as individuals rather than the assertion that them being high is what caused their violence.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22455101
http://learnaboutmarijuanawa.org/fac...aggression.htm

true enough violent people and criminals are going to increase their violence and criminality by consuming marijuana. but so would they with alcohol or hell even caffeine. you can look at studies on both alcohol and caffeine use correlation to violence and see the same trend. psychoactive drugs only make shitty people shittier but only in so far as inhibitions are loosened. correlation also does not equal causation as so many erroneously think.

here are a few studies on caffeine consumption that also list work done on its correlation to aggressive behavior and conduct disorders.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4668773/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5445139/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358888
if you read them you will notice something about those behaviors. but i doubt you or any of you are who are against legalization will. most of you seem like you don't care what the data says and are more concerned with protecting your beliefs.

and while you are using personal anecdotes for your argument, i've been around people that smoke marijuana for over 30 years and have never seen any of them become violent or have had violence done to me. i can not say that with alcohol though.

unsubscribe all you want. what's funny is most of you assume i smoke, because i support legalization, when i don't. i have in the past off and on and at some point i may start again. i support legalization because it is the right thing to do and scientific study increasingly supports that stance every year.

people like you need to start doing research on the subject... when you do get back to us that have.
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  #417  
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Every time I posted on this thread in the past I would get the Redirecting window and would have to wait until the next day to see it posted. LET'S see what happens this time.
I just wanted to say that this was a very "spirited" thread and I enjoyed it. People are going to believe what they want to believe and I have a deep respect for those who "stick to their guns" whether I agree with them or not. Thanks All.
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Every time I posted on this thread in the past I would get the Redirecting window and would have to wait until the next day to see it posted. LET'S see what happens this time.
I just found this post as waiting to be approved, and I've approved it. Unless you let Bert or a mod know, you could be waiting hours (as in this case), or even days, before anyone finds it and OKs it.

If you get the message that a post won't appear until it's approved, please tell someome that you're waiting and that it needs approving.
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Does anyone have any documented evidence that marijuana smoke is not harmful to human lungs?

I've never read or heard of any type of smoke being either benign or beneficial.

.
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Originally Posted by ed_in_az View Post
Does anyone have any documented evidence that marijuana smoke is not harmful to human lungs?

I've never read or heard of any type of smoke being either benign or beneficial.

.

Quote:
People who smoke marijuana regularly are more likely to experience chronic bronchitis, according to the report from the National Academies. There's also evidence that stopping smoking relieves these symptoms.
Perhaps surprisingly, the report's authors found moderate evidence that cannabis was not connected to an increased risk of the lung cancers or head and neck cancers associated with smoking cigarettes.


that is a quote from this article https://www.businessinsider.com/new-...ijuana-2017-12 which discusses a 2017 report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine which looked at over 10,000 studies on marijuana use and health effects among other things. The original report and its conclusions can be found here .... http://nationalacademies.org/hmd/rep...nabinoids.aspx

this is probably the largest report or study on the health effects of marijuana to date that also collates the scientific data to back it up.



i would anecdotally also say that i've been around marijuana smokers for 30 years and none of them i know have chronic bronchitis. but that doesn't mean much other than what i have experienced.



Also this is a report from The National Center for Biotechnology Information that details differences in carcinogens between tobacco smoke and marijuana smoke and states at the beginning
Quote:
While chemically very similar, there are fundamental differences in the pharmacological properties between cannabis and tobacco smoke. Cannabis smoke contains cannabinoids whereas tobacco smoke contains nicotine. Available scientific data, that examines the carcinogenic properties of inhaling smoke and its biological consequences, suggests reasons why tobacco smoke, but not cannabis smoke, may result in lung cancer.
It also goes into detail about why marijuana smoke ultimately is much safer than tobacco smoke and the difference in immune or biochemical responses between the two.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/


this may not answer your question, depending on how you define harmful. but i would tend to say that given all the research on the subject that is available it's safe to safe marijuana smoke can irritate the lungs but ultimately may not be more of a serious health concern than that. and as the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine report concludes regular marijuana smokers may have an increased likelihood of chronic bronchitis.

i would also say that many things that people wouldn't consider can be harmful or even lethal if consumed in large quantities with no regard for moderation. even water can be lethal in the right quantities and 'water intoxication' caused deaths are more common that one would think.
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