The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

Active Threads
0 Helmet poll
Last Post: Bama Lee XLC
Posted On: 27 Minutes Ago
Replies: 822
Views: 149,762
0 Is this 1200R worth $4500?
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 30 Minutes Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 392
0 Mustang's new seat? Anyone tried it?
Last Post: Adam76
Posted On: 40 Minutes Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 5
0 Accel shafts?
Last Post: kmul
Posted On: 41 Minutes Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 52
0 Winter Storm Warning
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 15
0 Celebrating Sportsterpedia's Third Anniversary
Last Post: sportytrace
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 288
0 They Say Three Time's the Charm ...
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 98
0 Food porn
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 1,082
Views: 157,218
0 Solo spring seat on 08 Nightster?
Last Post: sportytrace
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 105
0 which plug for dual plug heads
Last Post: IronMick
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 22
Views: 646
0 Help needed slip ons vs full system for new 48
Last Post: Adam76
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 97
5 Oil pump pressure
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 162
0 Do Loud Pipes in fact save lives?
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 2,456
Views: 249,327
0 Iree's late night cafe
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 1,000
Views: 104,189
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 42,488
Views: 6,588,090
0 ******* usps
Last Post: Kejobe
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 268
0 You asked for it! "The Tess' Coffee Thread"
Last Post: sportytrace
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 10,473
Views: 765,848
0 In Tank Oil Filter?
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 456
0 Winter reading........
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 824
14 DEAR Harley Davidson,
Last Post: Bama Lee XLC
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 507
0 Roads I'd like to ride.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 974
Views: 60,301
0 ***DK Custom Footpegs - Shift Pegs - Highway Pegs***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 37
Views: 12,238
0 How many helmets?
Last Post: 60Gunner
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 206
Views: 28,389
0 ***DK Custom Products Outlaw Permanent HiFlow Reusable Oil Filter***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 4,015
0 DK Custom Products Streamliner Bullet Turn Signal Relocation Kits
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 49
Views: 11,472
0 ****DK Custom Products Is Now Offering The Power Vision****
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 4,166
0 2019 East Coast Meet and Greet
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 165
Views: 8,770
0 Possible exhaust or intake leak...or something else.
Last Post: maverick31210
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 221
0 Average age of the Ironhead forum users
Last Post: 83ironman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 433
Views: 74,122
More...
Members Birthdays
steve yorke (61), edman (53), Hudsonator (51), kozman32 (51), R3DN3X (49), gmcsid (48), mitch (43), Gotenfan (29)
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 29th April 2018
paulc paulc is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Midlands UK
Posts: 1,607
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1976
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 74/5
Reputation: 631518
paulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deguireb View Post
Hi Paul, Sorry to hear about this problem, I have my transmission out now and collecting parts for the C ratio update. Having second thought now though. I am also a rookie so hopefully you get some guidance from others with experience soon. I'll be monitoring this thread closely, thanks for documenting it so well. Regards, Bryan
Don't be put off the c ratio Bryan. I don't think my problems are related to that. In the 500 miles I've done so far with the c ratio I found it is definitely worth the change. I think my issues may be related either to mainshaft endplay or a loose shifter fork shaft, or both. See what others think and I'll see what my Indy thinks when I get a chance to speak to him next.
Paul
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 792
Sportster/Buell Model: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year: 1974
Reputation: 93017
needspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud of
Default

Thoughts?

Clutch gear bearing looks to have excessive play. I'd replace it.

The shift fork shaft is supposed to be a press fit in the door and isn't supposed to come out, though many I've seen have lost the press fit and can be pushed out of the door but I think that's OK. But they shouldn't be so loose that the shaft wiggles the way yours does.

A new door is an option. But there are some really impressive retaining compounds that could be used to tighted that up. Take everything off the door, put some retaining compound on the door end of the shaft and install the door so it's aligned while it sets up. Where I work we have started using Loctite 680 in places where we used to use set screws and/or welding to hold slip fit parts together. It's great stuff.

The 16285-48 plug in the right case obviously needs to be retained by something other than silicone. It seems crude but often just peening the edge of the hole after it's put in does the job. You can see that someone did that on the black case you have. The long mark on the case near the hole looks to be from the factory on both cases. After '76 the plug isn't needed because the hole isn't drilled all the way through.

It's hard to tell from the pic but it looks like the hole in the c shaft oiler plug in the door isn't pointing up. If so it should be. It's there for oil to go in it not out. No way this caused your shifting problem though.

The splines on the sprocket end of the mainshaft look terrible.

Sometime around 1980 harley stopped using the tab and pin to keep the M/S washer from turning. If you don't want to repair that pin you have that option. Just grind the tab off.

Sorry I can't say what is causing the problem. Doodah's idea about a sticking plunger in the door certainly could do it.

The forks are supposed to slide on the fork shaft. If the shaft is moving with the forks because it's so loose that can't be helping. The gears look good and the spacing is right. The shift mechanism needs to be completely checked.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 792
Sportster/Buell Model: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year: 1974
Reputation: 93017
needspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud of
Default

Just looked again at your video of the clutch bearing. Looks like the tang on the lockplate for the shifter cam retainer is in the fork shaft hole. It shouldn't be. There's another hole for that. The tang is quite long. Maybe it is pushing your already loose shaft farther to the right so it's losing some support in the door and that contributes to the shaft becoming even looser?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 29th April 2018
paulc paulc is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Midlands UK
Posts: 1,607
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1976
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 74/5
Reputation: 631518
paulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks needspeed. I like the Loctite 680 idea. Maybe a metal plug in the case the other end of the shaft could be held with that as well. Is the 16285-48 plug metal or rubber? Just wondering if the black plug I had that was held with silicone is the 16285-48 plug or something used instead of it? I can't find a clear picture of one and my other engine has metal in that hole.

Interesting about the tang being in the wrong place, nice catch

The bearing will be replaced and I take your point about the mainshaft splines at the sprocket end of the shaft, I will have a close look at the sprocket fit and maybe get a new shaft. Don't think the budget will reach to Andrews right now though.

More thinking needed but a plan is beginning to form.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 792
Sportster/Buell Model: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year: 1974
Reputation: 93017
needspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud ofneedspeed has much to be proud of
Default

The plug is metal. I've never seen one that was new and not installed but I assume it looks like a welch plug/ dished core plug.

Instead of being flat a welch plug has a domed shape. It gets hammered in the hole against a shoulder and as the hammering flattens it in the hole the diameter increases slightly and gets tight.

Looks like you would need a 7/16" diameter plug.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 29th April 2018
brucstoudt's Avatar
brucstoudt brucstoudt is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pottstown PA.
Posts: 12,879
Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1960
Reputation: 223321
brucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant futurebrucstoudt has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by needspeed View Post

Sometime around 1980 harley stopped using the tab and pin to keep the M/S washer from turning.
1983.correct on the plug for the fork rod.you can get them at an auto parts store.the guy behind the counter gave me 2.
__________________
72 1000cc barrels and heads, s&s 41/2'' flywheels, sifton cams, s&s super B w/ zippers thunderjet w/yost powertube, andrews gears,and shafts, competition engineering kevlar wet or dry clutch, 72 oil pump, morris magneto w/auto advance and single fire module, cycle electric generator w/electronic regulator,73 cu.in.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 30th April 2018
barefoot barefoot is offline
Senior Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,914
Sportster/Buell Model: XR 750
Sportster/Buell Year: 1972
Sportster/Buell Model #2: RR 250
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1976
Reputation: 271483
barefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond reputebarefoot has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Gut feel here so feel free to ignore but ... the stuff you found is not good but it shouldn't result in the situation you described. Maybe a bad shift here and there, reluctance to go into gear, whatever but not wholesale disaster.

I'd be looking at the entire shift mechanism under a microscope. There's a great Doc thread here about the different towers, top hats, springs, all that stuff. It just sounds like something much worse than a loose rail or missing oiler cup is going on with your box.

And yeah, the output splines look awful but nothing moves on them. 99.998% sure that's not involved in your problem.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #28  
Old 30th April 2018
doodah man's Avatar
doodah man doodah man is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 37° 25' 28" N by -80° 03' 42" W
Posts: 9,665
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1975
Reputation: 351180
doodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond reputedoodah man has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulc View Post
shift fork looks kind of beat, and warrants further investigation. any chipped gear dogs anywhere?
__________________
i cut my deck to the ace of spades, but the cards were all the same
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 30th April 2018
paulc paulc is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Midlands UK
Posts: 1,607
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1976
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 74/5
Reputation: 631518
paulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks for the input guys. I will pull the trans out again this evening to have a look at everything again and get the bearing number for the clutch gear bearing.
Something i didn't mention but after reading a bit more seems maybe relevant - when we pulled the trans yoshi was ready with a rubber mallet on the right side but if I remember right it wasn't needed. I pulled the trapdoor and it slid out without needing a whack from the other side.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 30th April 2018
paulc paulc is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Midlands UK
Posts: 1,607
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1976
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 74/5
Reputation: 631518
paulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond reputepaulc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Scrap the above, tonight it needed a good whack to move it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah man View Post
shift fork looks kind of beat, and warrants further investigation. any chipped gear dogs anywhere?
These ones have some marks doodah:





A question: If I loctite the shift fork shaft, or maybe a new one, into the trapdoor how far through the door does it go? Flush with the outside? I've never seen one properly in place so have no idea.
Paul
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC