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Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

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  #21  
Old 29th April 2018
paulc paulc is online now
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Originally Posted by deguireb View Post
Hi Paul, Sorry to hear about this problem, I have my transmission out now and collecting parts for the C ratio update. Having second thought now though. I am also a rookie so hopefully you get some guidance from others with experience soon. I'll be monitoring this thread closely, thanks for documenting it so well. Regards, Bryan
Don't be put off the c ratio Bryan. I don't think my problems are related to that. In the 500 miles I've done so far with the c ratio I found it is definitely worth the change. I think my issues may be related either to mainshaft endplay or a loose shifter fork shaft, or both. See what others think and I'll see what my Indy thinks when I get a chance to speak to him next.
Paul
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  #22  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
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Thoughts?

Clutch gear bearing looks to have excessive play. I'd replace it.

The shift fork shaft is supposed to be a press fit in the door and isn't supposed to come out, though many I've seen have lost the press fit and can be pushed out of the door but I think that's OK. But they shouldn't be so loose that the shaft wiggles the way yours does.

A new door is an option. But there are some really impressive retaining compounds that could be used to tighted that up. Take everything off the door, put some retaining compound on the door end of the shaft and install the door so it's aligned while it sets up. Where I work we have started using Loctite 680 in places where we used to use set screws and/or welding to hold slip fit parts together. It's great stuff.

The 16285-48 plug in the right case obviously needs to be retained by something other than silicone. It seems crude but often just peening the edge of the hole after it's put in does the job. You can see that someone did that on the black case you have. The long mark on the case near the hole looks to be from the factory on both cases. After '76 the plug isn't needed because the hole isn't drilled all the way through.

It's hard to tell from the pic but it looks like the hole in the c shaft oiler plug in the door isn't pointing up. If so it should be. It's there for oil to go in it not out. No way this caused your shifting problem though.

The splines on the sprocket end of the mainshaft look terrible.

Sometime around 1980 harley stopped using the tab and pin to keep the M/S washer from turning. If you don't want to repair that pin you have that option. Just grind the tab off.

Sorry I can't say what is causing the problem. Doodah's idea about a sticking plunger in the door certainly could do it.

The forks are supposed to slide on the fork shaft. If the shaft is moving with the forks because it's so loose that can't be helping. The gears look good and the spacing is right. The shift mechanism needs to be completely checked.
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  #23  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
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Just looked again at your video of the clutch bearing. Looks like the tang on the lockplate for the shifter cam retainer is in the fork shaft hole. It shouldn't be. There's another hole for that. The tang is quite long. Maybe it is pushing your already loose shaft farther to the right so it's losing some support in the door and that contributes to the shaft becoming even looser?
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  #24  
Old 29th April 2018
paulc paulc is online now
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Thanks needspeed. I like the Loctite 680 idea. Maybe a metal plug in the case the other end of the shaft could be held with that as well. Is the 16285-48 plug metal or rubber? Just wondering if the black plug I had that was held with silicone is the 16285-48 plug or something used instead of it? I can't find a clear picture of one and my other engine has metal in that hole.

Interesting about the tang being in the wrong place, nice catch

The bearing will be replaced and I take your point about the mainshaft splines at the sprocket end of the shaft, I will have a close look at the sprocket fit and maybe get a new shaft. Don't think the budget will reach to Andrews right now though.

More thinking needed but a plan is beginning to form.
Paul
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  #25  
Old 29th April 2018
needspeed needspeed is offline
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The plug is metal. I've never seen one that was new and not installed but I assume it looks like a welch plug/ dished core plug.

Instead of being flat a welch plug has a domed shape. It gets hammered in the hole against a shoulder and as the hammering flattens it in the hole the diameter increases slightly and gets tight.

Looks like you would need a 7/16" diameter plug.
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  #26  
Old 29th April 2018
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Originally Posted by needspeed View Post

Sometime around 1980 harley stopped using the tab and pin to keep the M/S washer from turning.
1983.correct on the plug for the fork rod.you can get them at an auto parts store.the guy behind the counter gave me 2.
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  #27  
Old 30th April 2018
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Gut feel here so feel free to ignore but ... the stuff you found is not good but it shouldn't result in the situation you described. Maybe a bad shift here and there, reluctance to go into gear, whatever but not wholesale disaster.

I'd be looking at the entire shift mechanism under a microscope. There's a great Doc thread here about the different towers, top hats, springs, all that stuff. It just sounds like something much worse than a loose rail or missing oiler cup is going on with your box.

And yeah, the output splines look awful but nothing moves on them. 99.998% sure that's not involved in your problem.
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  #28  
Old 30th April 2018
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shift fork looks kind of beat, and warrants further investigation. any chipped gear dogs anywhere?
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  #29  
Old 30th April 2018
paulc paulc is online now
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Thanks for the input guys. I will pull the trans out again this evening to have a look at everything again and get the bearing number for the clutch gear bearing.
Something i didn't mention but after reading a bit more seems maybe relevant - when we pulled the trans yoshi was ready with a rubber mallet on the right side but if I remember right it wasn't needed. I pulled the trapdoor and it slid out without needing a whack from the other side.
Paul
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  #30  
Old 30th April 2018
paulc paulc is online now
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Scrap the above, tonight it needed a good whack to move it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah man View Post
shift fork looks kind of beat, and warrants further investigation. any chipped gear dogs anywhere?
These ones have some marks doodah:





A question: If I loctite the shift fork shaft, or maybe a new one, into the trapdoor how far through the door does it go? Flush with the outside? I've never seen one properly in place so have no idea.
Paul
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