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Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,158
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15th August 2017
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Flat Track Racer
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 209
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Are you serious about flat track anymore?
HD, I was very excited when I saw Indian was throwing its hat in the flat track ring. I thought, hell yes, let the battle begin. But there is no battle. Indian came in with three barrels blazing and you guys brought a knife to the gunfight.
I don't get it. Indian read the rules and built the best purpose built race engine they could design. They hired the best riders.
You, HD, read the rule book and elected to go with a production based engine, but left 150cc on the table.
Why not build a short run of 900cc Streets, enough for homologation and use a 900cc engine in the flat track bike?
Build a 900cc flat track engine. Put Dalton Gauthier on it. Make it a fight.
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13th May 2018
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Senior Custom Bike Builder
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan In garage !
Posts: 2,995 Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200c Sportster/Buell Year: 1996 Sportster/Buell Model #2: XL1200, 2003 Other Motorcycle Model: Suzuki T250 Hustler Other Motorcycle Year: 1971
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Most likely not enough interest in racing to make it worth the cost for Harley. Your average modern Harley rider has never attended a race.
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Bike Painter/Restorer and Aermacchi Nutcase !
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13th May 2018
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XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas/Mexican Border
Posts: 2,127 Sportster/Buell Model: xls 1000 Sportster/Buell Year: 1980 Sportster/Buell Model #2: xls 1000 Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1983 Other Motorcycle Model: 1200 Chopper XL Other Motorcycle Year: 1990
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Seen Kenny Roberts a bunch in the past at large motorcycle runs.
One of the most under paid fast guys on dirt that ever was.
Ball of death, wooden barrel riding, all things that are in the past now.
I guess now, it is a run to starbucks.
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13th May 2018
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foot in mouth member
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: trust me, it is in the middle of nowhere
Posts: 462 Sportster/Buell Model: 48 Sportster/Buell Year: 2016 Other Motorcycle Model: Dou-glide Other Motorcycle Year: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo21
HD, I was very excited when I saw Indian was throwing its hat in the flat track ring. I thought, hell yes, let the battle begin. But there is no battle. Indian came in with three barrels blazing and you guys brought a knife to the gunfight.
I don't get it. Indian read the rules and built the best purpose built race engine they could design. They hired the best riders.
You, HD, read the rule book and elected to go with a production based engine, but left 150cc on the table.
Why not build a short run of 900cc Streets, enough for homologation and use a 900cc engine in the flat track bike?
Build a 900cc flat track engine. Put Dalton Gauthier on it. Make it a fight.
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you kind of answered your own question when you say to build enough 900 cc Streets to homologate an engine. OK so you just make enough for a factory team, and no one else can get the thing unless they buy some limited edition bike. What you need is to make that bike available to anyone, that way if it wins on Sunday you are selling it to guys on Monday. You see there are no sales related to a win right now.
HD has ruled flat track so long they lost touch of why they did it.
Remember the 883 challenge? We all had 883s so when the race came to town we could compete. But the main superbike race only had a factory HD team with the VR1000 because we could not get that engine, so even if it had ever posted a win, third was best it ever got, there was no sales potential. THe 883 challenge had that potential but when they pulled the plug on the VR1000 the 883 challenge went away and there was a ton of guys fixing up 883s for the track.
Nope HD is not serious about flat track anymore, no sales potential. Indian however ha huge sales potential, if they beat HD then they sell any bike there is on their salesfloor.
PS HD did get a 5th place Yesterday at the Arizona Mile. But tell me what bike are they going sell if it wins? Put a flat track looking Street 750 on the show room floor and see what happens.
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Join the PEANUT CLUB, it gives you an excuse to stop and smell the roses
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25th June 2018
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Chief Master Mechanic
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 499 Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200CX Roadster Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
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I like watching it, but no - I don't think H-D takes it that seriously anymore.
About the 883 challenge. I think that was my favorite type race of all.
The only thing that could be better would be if H-D put on an 883 series dirt track race.
All stock Sportsters - all 883's.
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npg.org
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25th June 2018
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Senior Chief Know It All 2nd Class
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,499 Sportster/Buell Model: XL Sportster/Buell Year: 1992 Sportster/Buell Model #2: 1978 XLCH project Other Motorcycle Model: Sportster XLH Other Motorcycle Year: 1975
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It isn’t just “mainstream” flat track, either. Look at the cheap publicity Indian is getting out of Hooligan Racing.
Harley thought they could appeal to younger riders on the cheap, by faffing about at the X Games... and it turned out to be TOO cheap... and more to the point, hasn’t worked.
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25th June 2018
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XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cheviot, OH
Posts: 1,251 Sportster/Buell Model: XLH 1000 Sportster/Buell Year: 1978 Sportster/Buell Model #2: XL1200 R Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2005 Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH Other Motorcycle Year: 1979
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For years, Harley owned Flat Track. And everybody complained. The XR 750 was beating everything else out there. Everybody else had production based engines while Harley had a purpose built race bike. And it was expensive to maintain. So H-D decided to build their next engine based on the XG. It would reduce the expense of racing for the privateers and hopefully be competitive against the other bikes in the class; basically a return to the spirit of Class C competition.
Indian, on the other hand, went full bore and built a bike not even remotely like anything it was offering for sale. It's a purpose built race bike. If you tried to run one on the street, you'd have to rebuild it every week or two. They just want to win and Class C concept be damned. If you're a privateer, you'd better buy an Indian or you'll be sucking hind teat.
Harley got caught with the wrong bike for the competition. Now, to make things right, either H-D has to come up with a bike that's competitive with the Indian (and that will drive every other marque out of Flat Track) or the FTR should have some of the restrictions placed on it that were imposed on the XR 750 when nothing else was able to run against it. If it was fair to put intake restrictors on an XR, then it should also be fair to do the same to the FTR. It seems to me that special leeway is being given to Indian and they're taking advantage of it to the max. Maybe it's time to make them play nice with the Kawasakis, Yamahas, KTMs, Ducatis, etc.
Is it more important to get maximum brand participation in the mix, or is it better to narrow the field to only two marques? That's the real question.
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31st July 2018
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Chief Harley Engineer
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 543 Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C Sportster/Buell Year: 2006 Sportster/Buell Model #2: 883 Blue Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1997 Other Motorcycle Model: A pile of Ninja 250's Other Motorcycle Year: 1988
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What about a dirt track version the new 975 cc street fighter Harley just announced?
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11th August 2018
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Land Speed Record
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 753 Sportster/Buell Model: XL883/1200 Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
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Smoken Joe
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11th August 2018
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XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 1,989 Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200CP Sportster/Buell Year: 2015 Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH1200 (traded in) Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1998
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFish
What about a dirt track version the new 975 cc street fighter Harley just announced?
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+1 My understanding is that under current AMA Flat Track rules race engines like the FTR750 are limited to 750cc and prduction-based engines can be up to 900cc.
Question: Could H-D use a 900cc version of the new 975/1250 engine in AMA Flat Track?
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jzink0883, '15 XL1200CP, it ain't butt jewelry, it's a ride
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