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  #21  
Old 23rd February 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npaisnel View Post
Everyone says the Race is better because it allows greater Advance curve figures, greater than the ex version allows... yet virtually all the Custom maps that people have released on here and the Sportsterpedia DO NOT actually exceed the limits of the Ex version anyway.
So although in theory it is better, because of the greater possible Advance curve figures.., Very few people actually use /need / take advantage of the greater limits anyway.. so a totally theoretical ‘better’

The advantage of the Ex version...if you think it is an advantage, is Advance Figure control below 35ish % throttle.

The Ex version has three extra lines on the map
10 -12 -14 inch Manifold Pressure.

Idle throttle is about 12-14 inch MP at 1200 RPM.

So unless you are racing and / or riding above half throttle all the time, then Ex is probably more advantageous

I just bought an Ex to play with.
Good Point
Maybe the Big Twins need more timing than the EX unit allows but the Sportsters certainly do not !
24-28 degrees Total timing is plenty for a high compression Sporty and 32 degrees is more than enough for a Stocker
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  #22  
Old 23rd February 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketmangb View Post
Good Point
Maybe the Big Twins need more timing than the EX unit allows but the Sportsters certainly do not !
24-28 degrees Total timing is plenty for a high compression Sporty and 32 degrees is more than enough for a Stocker
Part throttle / closed throttle is where you need / want more but 36 - 38 degrees is still enough there.
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  #23  
Old 23rd February 2020
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Didnt think of cruise timing,might could use 44 even
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  #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketmangb View Post
Didnt think of cruise timing,might could use 44 even
All I could use was 38. It was not happy with more. The hemi (not bathtub) combustion chamber bikes could use more.

Last edited by Tomcatt; 23rd February 2020 at 22:04..
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  #25  
Old 24th February 2020
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The map i am using at th moment is one of either Zena's or 60 Gunners Voodoo, but with the three extra lines at 10-12-14.
I wound those three new lines up to the max the EX allows....decel pop..gone...because I have made extension lead, I can run the ignition unit in the saddle bags. So ai can load the same map on each..ride , swap unit sand plug back in .

Race version...decel pop, Ex version, no decel pop, instant and repeatable demo that it works
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  #26  
Old 24th February 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketmangb View Post
Good Point
Maybe the Big Twins need more timing than the EX unit allows but the Sportsters certainly do not !
24-28 degrees Total timing is plenty for a high compression Sporty and 32 degrees is more than enough for a Stocker

So that point that High Compression builds require LESS advance than stock is even more proof that the Race version is less needed on general higher spec builds.
I guess probably unless you are getting in to much higher spec race builds, with crank, valve train etc too, to handle the 7-8000 rpm's ..
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  #27  
Old 24th February 2020
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Well the higher up the food chain the builds are much different
Much larger and angled (30 degree) squish bands in the combustion chambers VS flat or 90 degree squish bands changing turbulence completely although we did have an engine build (1250) with flat top pistons and bath tub chambers that made surprisingly good numbers on the dyno.
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  #28  
Old 24th February 2020
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Just looked back at the title of this topic..yes we are going a little off course...Mine is the 1275 kit with flat top pistons, slightly enlarged hemi head, but keeping some squish band. Makes about 87 HP 92 ft lbs of torque.
1.725 in 1.485 out
10.35:1
But this attached graph does show how little difference to no difference the timing makes. Each run here increase the timing 1 degree from the loaded Jester IV map

This following graph shows 5 runs with Jester IV map loaded with Intial dial increased by 1 on each run ..bugger all difference on each run.



Jester IV Map


Jester IV Plus 4



The more I look at this, the more I am coming to the conclusion that most of the "seat of the pants dyno" improvements are just psychological "I've changed it, so it must be different"
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  #29  
Old 24th February 2020
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Yes
Power supply it is
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  #30  
Old 25th February 2020
npaisnel npaisnel is offline
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Created a new thread to discuss this further if there is any interest...

Have I been expecting too much from a change in timing, is it all in the mind....


http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...36#post5808236
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