Ironhead Bad break hypothesis

[brucstoudt]

Originally Posted by needspeed

Your set up rotates the brake cam in the opposite direction from stock. When applying the brake the shoes should be spread by the radiused edges of the cam. Did you recontour the sharp edges of the cam so that happens?

Your forward controls may alter the amount of pedal leverage. Obviously I don't know, but I'm guessing it's less than stock.

Some reading. Post #4

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1448695

i was never impressed with this reverse set-up but people who have to have the ''hard tail'' use this to make the rear ''BRAKE'' work.here's a different option not sure how well this works either http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...1131364&page=6 post
#56. it looks like the cam was relocated 180 degrees? no mention of that in the thread.

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by BKB

Maybe I should have said the most dangerous, rather than the most powerful. Still, the brakes, if working properly, will slow you down faster than the motor can speed you up. & if not working properly, will get you in trouble a lot faster, too.

Oh OK, totally agreed (look at the size of them), now I have to seriously read the book and these other posts, my dad's already texting about it so we may get to it today.

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by needspeed

Your set up rotates the brake cam in the opposite direction from stock. When applying the brake the shoes should be spread by the radiused edges of the cam. Did you recontour the sharp edges of the cam so that happens?

Your forward controls may alter the amount of pedal leverage. Obviously I don't know, but I'm guessing it's less than stock.

Unfortunately not so simple, my dad is a strong man and can stand on it without slipping/proper engagement


Some reading. Post #4


http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1448695

thus image may help, I didn't see any new (since you guys helped me in the right direction here) but will recheck post 4

OK yeah that answers my question below about how to tell. Will post pictures

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I don't know about the radiused edges, but as well as they used to work I am guessing yes. Is there a good sportsterpedia page with pictures? By your post both edges will be "radiused" if I am correct (as one side came that way and the other would have been grinded down (let me know if that is a misconception.)

[IronHeadRon]

http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...k:ih:wheels02a

F@#$, I seriously love this machine, but every time we think we're done.....

I need to reread the thing, but it seems I have to relace the wheel in 8 positions to "center the hub" and says nothing of the reverse brake common on low ridged that I've found so far.

Ugh, 10st it was the clutch took us a year to get parts and fix.
Then we finally started her and she leaked like a siv through the lifters housing.
Before all this my pops did the whole top end (new cylinders, rings, the works) and had the frame straightened by a oro so that uts better than factory!

I really xxxxing thought this was our year.

Probably a stupid question: As she stopped on dime before on previous configuration, if the pads or any other part is obviously worn ..... WOULD IT BE A SPORTSTER SIN TO JUST REPLACE AND TRY

Not trying to cheap out but I just know how my posp will feel when I tell him we need to relace wheels and get access to a press and good dial indicator (which is an even bigger kick in the a## as he was a machinist and all of his weere stolen by tweakers)

[needspeed]

Originally Posted by IronHeadRon

... By your post both edges will be "radiused" if I am correct (as one side came that way and the other would have been grinded down (let me know if that is a misconception.)

Yes, You'd end up with all four corners radiused.

Last pic at post 16 shows the cam. The radiused edges push the shoes apart.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...1864056&page=2

Is the size of the radius critical? I doubt it.
Would the shoes push apart without it? Yes, but the action won't be as smooth.

Disclaimer: I've never done this brake mod.

[IronHeadRon]

Cam lobes are NOT ground down, I have pictures but my storage is full and imagebb doesn't like that.

My pops doesn't trust you internet strangers (no offense, he's just old school) so we're going to take it to our buddy at the harley shop after the weekend

So I guess I have time to critically read and discuss this, but need to clear up my storage first and ..... I am quite disheartened and don't really feel like it at the moment. Fairly even ware until recently (I'm pretty sure from look if scratched and the fact that we didn't adjust the drum when we installed the new chain)

So my hypothesis as of now is it Never worked correctly (but my pops and PO learned to deal with the minute modulation provided by the slope to the 90° but it was probably the reason for our crash when I was 11 as extremes would flip past the 90 and lock up/release sporadically)

And the more recent phenomenon of lack of brake is due to misalignment (one drum engaging one side of hub (which spins and thus shows even wear)

I think whoever laced it did take care to pick the best orientation though. (As it "wirked" before and the hub wear looks even sans some recent scratches

Plan
1. Check with old wrench irl if y'all are right on fing Tuesday
2. Grind cam lobes in
3. Reassemble paying close attention to alignment (withe the nut that holds the brake from spinning is loose, the shoes have about 1/4" of wiggle room, that us the adjustment of the shoes in the hub .... I'm guessing if I leave it loose and engage brake and tighten it there it may naturally find center but idk)

TL;DR
Idiotic mistake exposes underlying inadequacy

I bounce back on in a while. Going to go smoke and be grumpy.



Edit, why am I a know it all now, grease monkey fit much better. Every d#$m post which I assert something I throw in a disclaimer I may be wrong. Great, so not only a week minimum on the metric but now all my pist make me look like some kind of arrogant a$$hole! ...... sorry for tantrum, it's a hard day, I really wanted to see some worn shoes and radiused cam lobes .......

[IronHeadRon]

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Sorry about upside downess

[IronHeadRon]

Originally Posted by Ferrous Head

......especially with the typical fat bast*rd that rids these things. My apologies to any skinny guys or women riding one.....

0 offense taken by my buckfifty ass! Maybe that's why trail braking and fronts in general have always seemed more effective then people claim (trail braking is scary as sh@t, only ever done it on my metric which certainly has more geometry change induced, but it's a thrill when you get it)

As for distribution of braking potential I recognize all your points but still don't think they add up to over 50 on the rear in my case at least. Regardless the debate us moot, I am going to do it right (and had no idea how wrong I was) and I don't claim to know this as fact, just my feeling (I feel the bike leans forward during deceleration even if you use the rear, which transfers some normal force to the front, the question is if this overcomes the variables you listed (surface patch, weight distribution, rider weight) my gut tells me it does but I am definitely not sure and am not trying to convince anyone.....I just wanted to see if there was consensus enough for me to change my belief and so far I have not......maybe some to e on American Iron will persuade me.......once it's finally fing done throwing curve balls every time I think She's road worthy.)

[Ferrous Head]

If you look at a modern sports bike you'll see the bikes are set up to get as much weight forward as possible. This gets you as much weight on the front tire as you can. That aids in grip, both for braking and for cornering.
If you watch some of the Superbike guys you can see them climbing up on the handlebars trying to get even more weight there.
My mate, Mattie Kline actually has padded his gas tank like a seat and climbs up until his head is level with his front wheel. That's a sidecar but the principle is the same.

[IronHeadRon]

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Well, this is worse than it looked. I was probably wrong about assuming anything was right..... I just got imgbb.com to work again, we're just going to clean up the wiring and change seats while it's easy today (like I said, pops wants a known wrenches word before proceeding.

Looking like I have to improvise a test for concenrtricity (no dial indicator handy)
And be bery careful with alignment
After either grinding or hopefully flipping the cam.... idk I'll read what you all wrote now. I'm sure you saw the bad before I did.

EDIT
Nevermind, maybe the brakes weren't hiding something me, but the drum sure was

Also, I am not going to be convinced on weight distribution vs torque on the whole bike effecting braking power (with discussion alone, some mathematical physics theories and equations or a real world test of some sort may, but any xperience and conversation accross my entire life up until this thread have been in consensus) definitely don't mind further discussion; but I feel I've siad what I have to say on that and as mentioned, some miles on American Iron may well change my mind. (My daily rn is a Honda shadow vt500, the latest edition fresh off the factory floor ..... of 1986 if that gives any indication of my expiration thus far, and I usually hover shy of 150lbs but have been rly trying to bulk up lately.)

Let me know if my proceddure idea seems inadequate given the evidence (starting with "looking like" above