The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

Active Threads
0 1979, Ironhead, shifter
Last Post: ThenCameHarry
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 1
0 V Stacks
Last Post: denguy
Posted On: 3 Minutes Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 211
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: fafcpa
Posted On: 20 Minutes Ago
Replies: 20,441
Views: 1,213,162
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 23 Minutes Ago
Replies: 49,937
Views: 8,162,235
0 Primary Leak
Last Post: BitterOldMan
Posted On: 36 Minutes Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 92
0 Home Brewing
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 41 Minutes Ago
Replies: 126
Views: 10,129
0 Trying to figure out if starter or stator
Last Post: The Doctor71
Posted On: 47 Minutes Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 216
0 1250 Unhappiness 2020 edition
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 53 Minutes Ago
Replies: 91
Views: 6,248
0 Lets see your off season builds
Last Post: mac93
Posted On: 56 Minutes Ago
Replies: 1,613
Views: 237,375
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 11,718
Views: 2,444,326
0 Hello from Virginia
Last Post: Folkie
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 54
0 Gender sensitivity:
Last Post: seajay
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 250
0 Shock mount sheared
Last Post: 84rzv500r
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 363
0 Happy Birthday Folkie!!!
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 328
0 Coil suggestions please!!!
Last Post: juzyHD
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 295
0 1999 S upgrades
Last Post: ChinCactus
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 2,088
0 33.4 Triple Tree Rubber Riser Bushings
Last Post: rejeanprimeau
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 110
0 05 sportster custom and bassani road rage
Last Post: Folkie
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 277
0 No brake lights - Sporsterpedia, I'm going in
Last Post: Bone
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 288
0 V.o.e.s
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 512
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 27,343
Views: 2,845,713
0 Rubbermount Poll
Last Post: Newbeme
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 257
Views: 84,847
0 New to me 1975 sporster xlh
Last Post: sungod
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 32
Views: 2,138
0 Sifton pre-filter 40-0387
Last Post: ThenCameHarry
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 74
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: Andy56
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,341
Views: 1,826,950
0 Upgrade proof, evidence backed, High Flow Air Filter/intake for EFI 883/1200
Last Post: d10221
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 91
Views: 4,949
0 Xlcr1000
Last Post: xlerate
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 264
0 2021 Christmas List
Last Post: xlerate
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 286
0 Can't find a bowl gasket anywhere, options?
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 33
Views: 2,380
0 Keep an Old sportster or buy New
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 832
More...
Members Birthdays
dho45 (60), Mark914 (57), diesel_lv (55), papabearstills (49), BavariaNight, pitchlynk22 (40), m3ntal (35), wrkdWS6 (33)
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11th January 2021
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,365
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1796133
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Ok. So I'm guessing you are still using the old style pawl carrier.

I won't use them. I use the later 72 (?) on style.

The indent spring is intended to force the cam plate into the correct position. Yours might be weak/wrong.

You will also need to check for binding of the lever shaft. This should have no stiction, be free to revolve.

I have to wonder why you seem to have to much distance with the counter shaft. Has the C/S boss area been machined ? Is there indication on the trap door that the drive gear has been wearing against the trap door ?

If I had it here I would try another C/S. No guarantee that it's been machined correctly.

Also check the width of the spacer between the drive gear and 2nd C/S. Mine are all spot on but you do need to check in this case.
__________________
"I know only too well the evil that I propose. But my inclinations get the better of me."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11th January 2021
gearhead1944 gearhead1944 is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8
Sportster/Buell Model: k-model
Sportster/Buell Year: 1953
Reputation: 10
gearhead1944 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I used the tall rollers in my 55 KH and it hung up going into 2nd gear from shifting either up or down.It loosened up after about a week.I pulled the trans out for a look and found the roller in 3 pieces in the bottom of the case.The roller was hitting something in the pawl assembly where it passes through the cam plate.Pulling the trans is not that big of a deal if you leave the chain and sprocket on,everything comes out but the mainshaft......mike....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11th January 2021
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,365
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1796133
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I might just add a not of caution here if I may.

While these boxes (and most others) are simple enough things, if you get something wrong it can be catastrophic.

And I'm not just talking about broken gears or ruined shafts.

When a gearbox "breaks" at high speed it can lock the rear wheel solid for you. Not trying to overly worry you but I have seen the result of this on a bike and rider at Turn 1 Phillip Island. Stepping off a bike at speed is something be avoided if you can.

Just like brakes these are simple mechanical things. But make a simple mistake and you could just find out how good your Doctor really is.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11th January 2021
brucstoudt's Avatar
brucstoudt brucstoudt is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pottstown PA.
Posts: 14,407
Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1960
Reputation: 824099
brucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead1944 View Post
I used the tall rollers in my 55 KH and it hung up going into 2nd gear from shifting either up or down.It loosened up after about a week.I pulled the trans out for a look and found the roller in 3 pieces in the bottom of the case.The roller was hitting something in the pawl assembly where it passes through the cam plate.Pulling the trans is not that big of a deal if you leave the chain and sprocket on,everything comes out but the mainshaft......mike....
are you sure the shovelhead top hats were trimmed to the proper length? they're too long for your k or xl trans.
__________________
72 1000cc barrels and heads, s&s 41/2'' flywheels, sifton cams, s&s super B w/ zippers thunderjet w/yost powertube, andrews gears,and shafts, competition engineering kevlar wet or dry clutch, 72 oil pump, morris magneto w/auto advance and single fire module, cycle electric generator w/electronic regulator,73 cu.in.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12th January 2021
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,365
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1796133
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
I also need to readjust the clutch one more time.
This might be a clue.

If your clutch is dragging - the gearbox will have problems. Clutch must really free completely to make the knife through butter shifts.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12th January 2021
shgrier's Avatar
shgrier shgrier is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 58
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1977
Other Motorcycle Model: 116" S&S FLSTFB
Other Motorcycle Year: 2001
Reputation: 3240
shgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the roughshgrier is a jewel in the rough
Default

Yeah, the clutch adjustment is what I'm thinking is the main issue.

I think some of y'all are stuck on this shift roller length. The ones I took out (because they were worn, and because 10 of the new ones only cost $8) were the same length as the new ones - as I said, one was even longer by a couple thou. The hats stick up about .030 above the shift cam, but come nowhere near anything else on the shift mechanism, even when I cycle the transmission through its gears by hand. This is a '77 bike with '77 parts in the transmission - meaning it's the newer style pawl carrier. Help me understand what these hats could possibly touch under operation - maybe I'm just missing the obvious.

FH, you didn't weigh in on the idea of two shims on the CSLow (outboard) gear to get closer to the .004-.009" endplay. When I tested and measured the clearances on the gears, I pushed the CSLow gear (and therefore the CS) against the stops on the trapdoor, as it should be once fully reinstalled, so the endplay I'm trying to get rid of is on the right side of the CS (outboard side of the CSLow gear)...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12th January 2021
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,365
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1796133
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

77 has a wet clutch.

It can be hard to stop them from dragging. Uh, sorry, probably not hard, probably impossible. Anyway, you have to do your best with it. Adjustment is very important.

Endplay is on both ends of the shaft. Think about how you measured it. You moved the shaft back and forth between the cases and the trap door. That means there is space between the trap door one way and a space between the case the other way.

The endplay allows all of the gears to move apart.

The drive gear is sometimes an interference fit on the shaft. Sometimes they fall on and off. The space between the drive gear and 2nd is fixed by the spacer between the gears.
But when the drive gear can move the maximum width will vary.

With only 4-9 thou of endplay first gear can move away from 3rd by that amount. But with 20 thou endplay you have more than doubled it.

Also, did you read the bit in the FSM about "engagement ? It's important that the dogs engage by a minumum amount when the are changed.

What we're trying to do here is juggle the different gaps so that:

the clutch faces don't hit when they are not engaged. And that the dogs go in far enough to maintain drive and not "kick back out".

We can only manage that if the endplay is kept within specs.

Otherwise we could just say "just make sure you have free play on the shafts.

If the end play on the C/S is 20 tho your really looking for 15 thou. I often have to run two shims on the inside of 3rd gear to get there. But again, you have to be in spec with the clutch faces and dog engagement.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12th January 2021
Ireeman's Avatar
Ireeman Ireeman is online now
Asgardian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Deck of Me boat
Posts: 8,531
Sportster/Buell Model: 883r
Sportster/Buell Year: 2003
Other Motorcycle Model: Chris Craft 32
Other Motorcycle Year: abov
Reputation: 9555260
Ireeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond reputeIreeman has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Carbon Copy this to St. Francis of...CC
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16th January 2021
brucstoudt's Avatar
brucstoudt brucstoudt is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pottstown PA.
Posts: 14,407
Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1960
Reputation: 824099
brucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

shovehead top hat length compared to XL http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...1734747&page=6 the advantage to these is after trimming them to xl length the taper at the end is eliminated.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC