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  #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlv View Post
Thanks again, I would never have found such details on the web. Since the engine has received new pistons, new boring, new valves, etc....I will avoid taking the risk and look for a 79 pump !
Here is a pic of the engine.
Good Gawd that's pretty!

Understood.
If buying used:
You can use any 77-85 oil pump.
But the L83 pump had the latest upgrades.
Your pump body appears to be the L83 style.
The 77-E83 style pump body is rounded in the area of the check valve:
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  #12  
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jlv jlv is offline
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Hi Hippysmack,
Sorry to disturb you again with my existential questions...

I was so happy to find a NOS pump 1977 in france but when the seller sent the pics, I discover that this is exactly what I have, without the hole. I am now back to point zero....I wonder if my crank case cover is the right one.....If oil had to be sent to the engine by a hose through the hole I used for the pressure sender, where should it go ???

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  #13  
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See that -86 in the cavity in the cover?
That is an 86-90 cover without a doubt.
I'm sorry to tell you but the seller is either ignorant or trying to pull a fast one on you.

I have seen the same thing on Ebay.
I actually contacted a seller to let them know I couldn't use the oil pump they had on auction.
But I did inform them they were mis-representing the year model.
They did relist it with the correct year model stated.
Some of them are honest folks who would sell a piece of dirt someone gave them as a precious crystal if the person they got it from said it was.

That's why I tried to give you as much history as I have compiled on these pumps so you could hopefully get what you need.But I would definitely pass that up as it is the same compilation of parts you already have.

edit:
These are part numbers (not casting numbers)
Late 77-81 part numbers:
(26484-75) Oil pump body
(26486-75) Pump cover
(no casting numbers are stamped into the parts)


82-E83 part numbers:
(26484-83) Oil pump body
(26486-83) Pump cover
(no casting numbers are stamped into the parts)

L83-85 part numbers:
(26484-75A) Oil pump body
(26486-75A) Pump cover
There are casting numbers in the cavities.
I don't have this certain pump but I believe the (-83) is missing in the casting numbers.
Maybe you could help me confirm that.



86-90 part numbers:
(26484-86) Oil pump body
(26486-86) Pump cover
86-90 Casting numbers:
(26485-) Body casting number (-86 is missing).
(26487-86) Pump cover.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 3 Weeks Ago at 16:31..
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  #14  
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You are my hero of the day !!!!
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  #15  
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I lucked up and got the proper parts with the proper pumps.
I've also noticed the dirty pumps seem to have the right parts in them.
Just cause it's dirty means nothing and chances are better that it was taken off an engine and not molested.
Dirty ones seem to be a bit cheaper at times than clean ones.
Clean or dirty, they all probably need to be rebuilt before use anyway.
Cleanliness means nothing to me but throwing up a red flag to watch out for mismatched parts.
Dirty or clean, the condition of the gerotors and internal parts should be inspected before buying if possible.
The other side of the coin on used pumps, clean parts where you can see all the internals helps to assess wear.
That combined with checking the pics in the pedia will help to determine if the correct parts are there also.

Edit:
New aftermarkets are available (although expensive) and can be an option.
Here is one for about 500 bucks on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/77-85-Sport...EAAOSwDNdVl-4-

In regard to inspecting the internals,
We all hope that fellow owners would not pass along their heaps to us.
And in some cases, they are simply passed on to unknowing 'what not' buyers who simply resale them.
The 'Harley' name means $$$ to them.
But, it's eventually us that end up with them.

There will most likely be some circular scratching where the gerotors sit in the body and the cover.
This is probably normal to an extent in every used pump that we are riding with on a normal day.
Not changing oil frequently and engine wear will end with debris / grit in the oil pump which scratches the surfaces in the pump.
This is typical for a used pump and the scratches will diminish oil pressure some but not critically unless the scratches are deep.

But, I'd hate for you to open up a brand new used pump to find this inside:

Last edited by Hippysmack; 3 Weeks Ago at 18:21..
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  #16  
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Here's a used one for 224.99 (plus shipping to you):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/H3-Oil-Pump...ion=4#shpCntId

The seller didn't completely open it up but at least showed it with the cover off.
This reveals chamfered gerotors (77-E83)

Fine tuning that,
The fittings 'may' reveal more.
77-81 style oil pump, (1) 90° return and (1) 45° feed fitting.
82-E83 style oil pump, (1) 45° return and (1) 45° feed fitting.
L83-85 style oil pump, (1) 90° return and (1) 90° feed fitting.

Unless the cover is a mismatch (even though 77-85 style),
(2) 45 degree fittings reveal it as used in 82-E83 applications with the upgrades for that time frame.
The fittings were changed when oil tanks / line configurations were changed.

Also the arm in the body where the check valve sits is rounded on the edge.
Reveals 77-E83 also.

Most parts will interchange between the different pumps with the exception of;
Gerotors:
Either early or late style gerotor gears may be used with late style (under-cut) oil pump bodies and covers.
77-E83 style chamfered gerotor gears may (only) be used with early style oil pump bodies and covers.
(Use of late style gerotor gears in early style oil pump bodies and covers could cause the oil pump to bind up and possible pump failure).

Outer Plate:
The outer plate had a design change at the bore for the gearshaft.
The outer plate seal changed to mate up with the new design.
So, they fit together as a unit.
Either plate matched with it's correct seal will work on 77-85 pumps.




I apologize for all the edits but I can't remember it all since there were so many particulars to 77-85 pumps.
That's why it's good to refer to the pedia with all the info already compiled there.
All the parts lists and upgrades are listed here:
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/techtalk:ihil03d
But the outer plate that should be in your pump now should look like the one on the left and is the better design over the original plate / seal combo.

The seal is hand pressed into the plate instead of just sitting in it as in previous.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 3 Weeks Ago at 19:18..
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  #17  
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I will take my pump out again and check all this out. But given all efforts (and money...) I have placed into this machine, I will follow your advise and take a new replica.
Found one similar to the one you provided a link for, less expensive.
Have you ever received a feed back on the quality and functionnality of these replicas, most likely made out of the US ?
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Replica-Oil-...oAAOSwSjpcZfEm

Thanks again for all your help. I was about to purchase this "NOS 77 pump" which appears to be a 86 one, and waste 400 USD....by the way I wrote to the seller.....Who kept silent....
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  #18  
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I haven't seen much of in the way of replicas on the forum although I may not have searched right for them.
This forum is huge!!

I would like to see some pics of it to add to the pedia if it's not too much trouble.
I'd be curious also to know the thickness of the gerotors but I wouldn't ask you to take it apart for that.

I'm glad you didn't buy the NOS 77/86 mishmash.
Some sellers don't immediately reply to emails, especially when it's telling them they are in the wrong.
They may try to do some research before getting back with you, if at all.
Some get duped by the people they bought it from and have to settle that out also.
But, your email to them gets stored by ebay and when the next guy gets screwed and complains, it'll at least be on file.

Edit:
Hell, I just took a closer look at that cover.
It looks to have light scratches as in a Used cover would look.
You probably won't hear back from the seller.
I believe he knows what he's done...

Last edited by Hippysmack; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:37..
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  #19  
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Given all the efforts you made to follow this up, I owe you some detailed pics and measurements of the replica once I receive it. But it will probably take a few weeks to come from the US. I'll let you know.
I have just purchased a pressure gauge https://www.bikers-store.fr/fr/fiche.cfm?article=1609
that I located here on the pic below. (because of the tank, I could not fit it on the left hole ). Should I observe some pressure there ? I started the engine with my old drilled pump, and despite the top of the engine is now oiled, the pressure gauge stays to zero. I did not insist. I'll do that with the new pump.

Thanks again.
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Testing oil pressure at the rocker box doesn't tell you much.
There will be some pressure up there at startup, but little to none once the engine warms up.
The only way to monitor oil pressure in spec with the FSM is to remove the oil pressure switch and put the gauge / gauge input there.

At startup, you will see higher pressure due to the oil being thicker.
Once the oil heats up and thins out, it's easier to push into the engine by the pump and the pressure goes down.
So at startup, you could see pressure from 30-60 psi up to 100 psi even.
So it's safe to have a 100 psi gauge on the pump.
If your engine only makes 50psi at startup then you haven't lost anything with the gauge.
If you end up past 60 psi, you could damage a lower pressured gauge.
(it's really a crapshoot until you try it and see what the pump is capable of though)

Once you're up to operating temps per the FSM:
Minimum: 3-7 psi (idle)
Maximum: 15 psi (60 mph in high gear)
Normal riding conditions: 4-15 psi

With the new aftermarket pump, it'd should be comparable to these figures.
But there are no specs from the MoCo on oil pressure taken from the rockers.
We do have some data from other members who reported their rocker box pressures but that data is not very impressive, consistent or decisive.
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...d_oil_pressure

A good functioning check valve opens between 4 and 6 psi.
So you can see that the normal riding pressure is just over the cracking pressure of the check valve.
This supports my earlier posting on the importance of getting the right cover.
You can't afford to have a weak pumping system with the wrong one.

Oil flow operates in the crankcase but it takes restrictive oil pressure to get oil into the rockers and the crank pin in the proper amount.
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