The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > EFI Sportster Motorcycle Talk (2007 and up)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

EFI Sportster Motorcycle Talk (2007 and up) For 2007 and above Sportsters

Active Threads
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: trainman
Posted On: 30 Minutes Ago
Replies: 22,200
Views: 2,270,621
0 S&S Super E Carb
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 41 Minutes Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 192
0 82 E84 L84-85 charging systems?
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 212
0 AGM battery for 76' XLH
Last Post: JonesL
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 344
0 79-85 Breather Vent Mod - Adding a Secondary Vent Hose at 6:00 Position
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 51
Views: 1,468
0 Generator conversion kit question
Last Post: BigMek
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 72
0 Piston Question '82 Ironhead 1000 Electric Start
Last Post: BigMek
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 189
0 Sportster fans, tell us why!
Last Post: 1200CustomHD
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 689
Views: 182,318
0 New to me 55kh
Last Post: Nitro57xl
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 305
0 so it's officially ended
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 29
Views: 592
0 Any Banjo-Playing Sporty Riders here?
Last Post: bklyngeezer
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 39
Views: 1,774
0 cant bleed my brake please help !
Last Post: LLOYD883
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 844
0 What brand synthetic oil do you use
Last Post: hexnut
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 506
Views: 131,136
0 What cams are these
Last Post: keithnh
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 18
Views: 3,281
0 New build. Won't start. Funky compression numbers
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 39
Views: 1,516
0 Iron head swingarm 6 Inch Stretch
Last Post: kitabel
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 73
0 Cylinder head painting and battery and kick start advice
Last Post: Uberstorm
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 173
0 Whats the Ironhead TOP SPEED?
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 143
Views: 18,402
3 Wtb, Wts, Wtt, Wtg (Ironhead)
Last Post: rocketnorton
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 43
Views: 264,412
0 Restoring stainless exhaust back to new?
Last Post: beard.tailor
Posted On: 16 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 531
0 My 08' Nightster
Last Post: beard.tailor
Posted On: 16 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 923
0 Nup 1009 (Bearing)
Last Post: juzyHD
Posted On: 16 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 89
0 Potential future changes for the Sportster motor?
Last Post: retread08
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 53
Views: 2,279
0 front brake caliper interchange question
Last Post: JacksBrother
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 1,896
5 1200 or 883
Last Post: Clevspeed
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,122
Views: 356,621
0 Can I use heads and jugs (top end) from 2001-1200
Last Post: ReddTigger
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 262
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 48,397
Views: 7,811,266
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 23 Hours Ago
Replies: 18,112
Views: 1,068,869
0 Exhaust differences from 98 to 99
Last Post: Cablejudge
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 109
0 New pn OEM battery for Sporty 04 up
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 278
More...
Members Birthdays
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 2nd April 2013
sportsterdoc's Avatar
sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 13,562
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH883
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2003
Reputation: 6321776
sportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireeman View Post
98.8 but i am running on alcohol right now, with a 85* ambient temperature and damn near 7 feet above sea level....no breeze yet, hope that helps.
Verry funny!
However, I was asking the conditions for the temps posted by Counter Steer.
He advised stop and go on highway, but not the incline (if any) or ambient or if the motor was already heat saturated or just coming up to temp.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 2nd April 2013
Counter Steer's Avatar
Counter Steer Counter Steer is offline
Chief Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 564
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 1996
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1972
Reputation: 423101
Counter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond reputeCounter Steer has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Verry funny!
However, I was asking the conditions for the temps posted by Counter Steer.
He advised stop and go on highway, but not the incline (if any) or ambient or if the motor was already heat saturated or just coming up to temp.
This was not my study. My own results are logged but not photo'd. I was looking for the original link but I have not found it yet. Ambient mentioned in the study was in the 90s. No incline mentioned. I was using his work to compare it to my own infrared reader results on an ironhead and a rigid evo, also a airhead and a twin cam. Evo results are very close to my own readings.

While I have an infrared reader, I do not have an infrared camera so I posted this photo as it provides a basic heat set that is more understandable than posting numbers from my EVOs heat log.
__________________
Mhac nan con
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 2nd April 2013
sportsterdoc's Avatar
sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 13,562
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH883
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2003
Reputation: 6321776
sportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Counter Steer View Post
This was not my study. My own results are logged but not photo'd. I was looking for the original link but I have not found it yet. Ambient mentioned in the study was in the 90s. No incline mentioned. I was using his work to compare it to my own infrared reader results on an ironhead and a rigid evo, also a airhead and a twin cam. Evo results are very close to my own readings.

While I have an infrared reader, I do not have an infrared camera so I posted this photo as it provides a basic heat set that is more understandable than posting numbers from my EVOs heat log.
Interesting
With an ambient into the ninties, if the motor was already heat saturated, that showed a very reasonable CHT.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 2nd April 2013
Bone's Avatar
Bone Bone is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 11,020
Sportster/Buell Model: FLHP
Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Guzzi V7 Stone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2013
Other Motorcycle Model: 18 Guzzi V7D / 11 Duc 696
Reputation: 4213563
Bone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot479 View Post
i dont beleive that harley actually lists a normal operating temp for the sportster....ive been looking for that for quite awhile.
FWIW they DO list it, at least in the 2004 and 2007 Rubbermount manuals - under Checking Oil Pressure (around page 3-14/3-15 depending on the year).

Quote:
Engine Oil should be at normal operating temperature (230°F/110°C) for an accurate reading.
Problem is they don't specify how/where to measure that temperature.

Not to mention they list the same spec for carbureted rubbermounts as EFI rubbermounts and we've noted here for a long time that cylinder head and oil bag temps are significantly different between the carb and EFI rubbermounts, which makes me wonder about the accuracy of the spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
For a long time (Sportster.org from 2003 to 2012), I have been preaching a max of 230 F for oil temperature. Most aircraft motors stipulate 220/225 as max. When my 1200S was factory jetted, I saw close to 230 F, sustained WOT up a 6% grade in CA. Under the same conditions, after it was rejetted, it dropped 20 degrees F.

I realize that I have switched from CHT to oil temp, but there is a correlation. It would be interesting to have feedback from riders who can read both: What is the Cylinder Head Temperature when the oil is at 200, 210, 220, 225, 230F?

Riding in the CA desert, AZ and NV, I pay a lot of attention to temperature. My ride last Saturday was NV-AZ-UT, but I was cold enough to not be concerned about the motor!
Looking at temp threads here over the years I get the impression that these bikes run anywhere from 180-240F, measured in the bag, varying with ambient conditions, engine tune, AND model.

IIRC the patterns suggest that generally stockish:

Solidmounts run about 190-210F
Carb rubbermounts run about 180-200F
EFI rubbermounts run about 210-240F

There are exceptions obviously, but it seems that the improved cooling strategy of the rubbermounts was designed in anticipation of hotter/leaner temps which would occur with the EFI bikes.

Now I don't have a Powervision or some other direct method of datalogging head temps from the sensor, but I have periodically checked temps on our bikes using a laser pyrometer.

Our 05 carb rubbermount 883L used to run oil bag temps noted above (around 180-200F) and head temps in the low to mid 200s, maybe 210-250F measured at the spark plug port.

In contrast our 07 EFI rubbermount 1200L tends to run oil bag temps of about 220-230F and head temps in the low to mid 300s, maybe 320-355F measured at the spark plug port.

But I have no idea what kind of spikes they might see.

I'd also suggest that IF head temps are in the 300s there's NO WAY the oil isn't seeing higher temps in the heads than it indicates when it gets back to the bag.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 2nd April 2013
sportsterdoc's Avatar
sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 13,562
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH883
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2003
Reputation: 6321776
sportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Bone
That is a lot of very good info.
My point, is that with proper A/F ratio, the oil temp should not exceed 220, 225, maybe 230 F for a short time...regardless of carb or EFI.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 2nd April 2013
sportsterdoc's Avatar
sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 13,562
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH883
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2003
Reputation: 6321776
sportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Bone commented: "There are exceptions obviously, but it seems that the improved cooling strategy of the rubbermounts was designed in anticipation of hotter/leaner temps which would occur with the EFI bikes."

No doubt, as H-D likely expected more EFI bikes to remain stock fuel mixture, so the increased oil flow under the piston was expected as a counter-measure.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 2nd April 2013
Bone's Avatar
Bone Bone is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 11,020
Sportster/Buell Model: FLHP
Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Guzzi V7 Stone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2013
Other Motorcycle Model: 18 Guzzi V7D / 11 Duc 696
Reputation: 4213563
Bone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond reputeBone has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Bone
That is a lot of very good info.
My point, is that with proper A/F ratio, the oil temp should not exceed 220, 225, maybe 230 F for a short time...regardless of carb or EFI.
Abosolutely, there's no reason you can't reduce head and oil temps on an EFI motor with a tuner.

That said, Harley does significant desert testing on their stock bikes, and I have to believe that even though the EFI bikes tend to run pretty darn hot compared to carb bikes in years gone past, I don't believe there is any harm in it.

As a matter of fact, IF you ever ride in cold/wet weather there may be an advantage to running a little warm (getting rid of excess moisture).

Tangentially related story, on the newest air-cooled 8V 100+ rwhp 1200cc Moto-Guzzis (mostly Griso and Stelvio models I believe) there have been a number of engine failures (I believe tapped related) in Australia where one of the dealers is currently looking into the possibility that it is because they are OVER-COOLED in the rain. These bikes use dual oil pumps, one which pumps for lubrication and a second that pumps for cooling - as the exhaust valves use dedicated oil passages that have been added for cooling.

Anyway - I realize there's a point of diminishing returns and that heat can kill, but the point is, so can cold.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 8th April 2013
hpotter hpotter is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 40
Sportster/Buell Model: XLC
Sportster/Buell Year: 2008
Reputation: 10686
hpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of lighthpotter is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Have experienced this before, ended up was because I lost one of two flange nuts to tie pip to rear engine.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 13th August 2020
SonWon SonWon is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 2nd Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,411
Sportster/Buell Model: Superlow 1200T
Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
Reputation: 636347
SonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond reputeSonWon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I was researching engine temperature since I installed a new instrument (read here if you are interested) that shows the cylinder head temperature and thought I would post it here in this thread for the next person.

Sportster 1200 2016

ambient temperature 30-31° C (86-88° F)

Cylinder head temperature 200-225° C (392-437° F)

I believe these are normal operating temperatures for these engines.

I plan on purchasing an oil temperature gauge next and will try to remember to return and update this post. Or maybe there should be an thread tracking these temperatures.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC