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  #21  
Old 5 Days Ago
Staffords Staffords is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckthebeatertruck View Post
Careful here . . . your impatience is shining through and you may blow several hundred quid and have nothing but a foamy ring in your mug to soothe your ache.

Throwing parts at something when you are impatient often doesn't solve much.

I'm speaking from experience here.

I've been fighting a persnickity bike for a couple of YEARS now . . .and I get your strong desire to ride now and recoup your investment. Beating back that frustration is one of the tougher things to do when you are sorting out a rebuilt bike. When you have experience and can't quite beat a problem it makes it 500% more frustrating.

To fully beat the problem; you need to be methodical. You need before and after data. You need the data to be consistent. Notebooks with details are very helpful here as are good photos showing if this or that moved in relations to this or that after running the machine.

Otherwise, where do you start if the new parts don't change anything?

More new parts?

Also, please don't forget that as good as colony is -- colony is nothing like OEM harley davidson.

As oft repeated on XL Forum -- first rule of ironhead ownership is to do it like the factory.

If the offending parts are not OEM . . .is that a clue? Just something to think about as you wait for new parts to arrive.

There's only questions here on the internet ... only you can see what's in front of you.
I certainly have grown impatient. I'm sick of spending the time to make sure the mag/carb/pushrods are all perfectly dialed in only to get stranded a few miles from home every time I take the bike out. Then I have to wait overnight for the motor to cool and another day that I have the time to set the pushrod adjustment again just to have it do the same thing next time i ride it.

This is a fairly simple system of parts. We've determined chromoly pushrods are not stock, and they're probably overkill. The problem maybe related to the fit of the ball ends or the lack of thermal expansion compared to stock aluminum rods. So I'll go back to the original style aluminum rods. We've also determined that the tapered seat of the tappets/lock nuts could be the problem. I'll get new, made in USA tappets/adjuster screws/lock nuts that are made to go together rather than mix and matching lifters and tappet adjusters.

If NOS Harley parts were readily available I'd use those.

A few hundred dollars in USA-made parts is money well spent if it fixes the problem. If I want to be methodical and try to further isolate the problem I'll at least have the parts to do it on hand. I doubt I'll get a different result without changing something.
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  #22  
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I can well understand your frustration.

Simple system, simple parts and, normally, just simply works.

I use both alloy and chro-mo rods in my engines. Neither presents me problems generally.

But I do advocate approaching things systematically.

You rally have to think about every part of the valve train. One of those parts is not meeting it's stated design goals. Usually a good visual inspection f parts will show you one that is not performing.
There are a number of things in the system that need to be right before this system works. What parts can affect the tappet clearance.
This goes from the cams all the way to the valves.

Things like a loose rocker box or loose head bolts will affect the length required. The rocker arms should never bind, but is that the case here ?
Valves should not stick in guides but sometimes they do.
Cams should be a nice fit into both the bearings and the bushes. Lifters should not be too loose in their bores. The rollers on the lifters need to be in good shape.

Did you take notice of Doc's advice to mark the tappets ?

If this is in fact a tapper related problem and the nuts really are coming loose that would rule in or out the tappets as being the problem but only as far as the nuts go.

Looking back on your original post something strikes me.

You say, "a valve fails to open and the engine runs on only one cylinder."

In my mind it's more likely the valve is not closing fully. Having a tappet too loose will be noisy, but the engine normally continues to run. Having a tappet too tight on the other hand or anything that results in the valve not closing will severely affect compression and may stop that cylinder from running.

Also, this does sound like a heat related issue. Fine when the engine is cold, occurs only after the engine is fully warmed up. So quite probably heat related in some way.

Heat related problems show up when clearances aren't correct.

The problem with that is you check clearances when things are cold. You've installed new lifters and lifter blocks. I'm always suspicious of new parts I have installed when something goes wrong immediately after installing them.

There may well be something wrong with your lifter screws and nuts. But I would expect the jam nut would have had to come loose for this to be the case. Has that happened ?

Or were the nuts still tight on the lifter when you check them ?
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  #23  
Old 4 Days Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
I can well understand your frustration.

Simple system, simple parts and, normally, just simply works.

I use both alloy and chro-mo rods in my engines. Neither presents me problems generally.

But I do advocate approaching things systematically.

You rally have to think about every part of the valve train. One of those parts is not meeting it's stated design goals. Usually a good visual inspection f parts will show you one that is not performing.
There are a number of things in the system that need to be right before this system works. What parts can affect the tappet clearance.
This goes from the cams all the way to the valves.

Things like a loose rocker box or loose head bolts will affect the length required. The rocker arms should never bind, but is that the case here ?
Valves should not stick in guides but sometimes they do.
Cams should be a nice fit into both the bearings and the bushes. Lifters should not be too loose in their bores. The rollers on the lifters need to be in good shape.

Did you take notice of Doc's advice to mark the tappets ?

If this is in fact a tapper related problem and the nuts really are coming loose that would rule in or out the tappets as being the problem but only as far as the nuts go.

Looking back on your original post something strikes me.

You say, "a valve fails to open and the engine runs on only one cylinder."

In my mind it's more likely the valve is not closing fully. Having a tappet too loose will be noisy, but the engine normally continues to run. Having a tappet too tight on the other hand or anything that results in the valve not closing will severely affect compression and may stop that cylinder from running.

Also, this does sound like a heat related issue. Fine when the engine is cold, occurs only after the engine is fully warmed up. So quite probably heat related in some way.

Heat related problems show up when clearances aren't correct.

The problem with that is you check clearances when things are cold. You've installed new lifters and lifter blocks. I'm always suspicious of new parts I have installed when something goes wrong immediately after installing them.

There may well be something wrong with your lifter screws and nuts. But I would expect the jam nut would have had to come loose for this to be the case. Has that happened ?

Or were the nuts still tight on the lifter when you check them ?
Ferrous,

Sorry, it seems i have not communicated the exact issue/symptoms well.

When the problem happens the lifter adjuster screw and lock nut is COMPLETELY LOOSE. As in the lock nut has moved up and the adjuster has screwed itself back down into the lifter enough that pushrod is just laying in the pushrod tube and is no longer opening or closing the valve. That is why I initially suspected the adjusters/ split lock nuts were the problem. I replaced the adjusters and lock nuts with Colony USA parts and it happened again on the very next outing, different pushrod this time.
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  #24  
Old 4 Days Ago
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OK.

That's a horse of a different color.

I've never had THAT situation before.

I would have to guess the profile is wrong on the taper for the tappet or the split nut.
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  #25  
Old 3 Days Ago
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I can anecdotally vouge that colony worked great for our leaky tappet block, adjuster split nut, and covers as a fairly recent buy (within a year). The only difference I can see is what Chuck pointed out. Do you still have a couple oem ones you could try? (I imagine you replaced with a four pack after one had an ussue)

Didn't see your response to Chuck, I'll leave this because I like colony though.

Or maybe you didn't, I really need to find my glasses, asked a Mongol what year his sporty was the other day ...... it wasn't a sporty (he didn't care but I was embarrassed as xxxx, I accept I can only name the old engines, but I should've been able to tell that!)

Edit, also I know you know bu worth mentioning the fragility of oem split nuts (maybe even the aftermarket ones) very little pressure will crack them into.

Last edited by IronHeadRon; 3 Days Ago at 22:46.. Reason: point out the obvious
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  #26  
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Your not alone Ron.

But it's not all our fault. The Japs have been building look-a-like Harley's for years now. I have to get right up close and read the tank badge.
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  #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryder rick View Post
Some folks should weld their tool box closed.
Laughed way too hard at that. I want to see deep fake montages where some dude does this for his wife or something (like ones that keep you guessing until the end)

Also, I think colony can be better than 50 year old oem lol, but I'm no fan boy (obviously the part made fit the bike by the kids of the people who made the bike can surpass them) I was just throwing in a anecdote (incase the colony stuff was suspect, I got the same parts very recently (except the rods) only it works great. Stopped the leak, and definitely let's oil though)

Just an anecdote to help in the choosing of a diagnostic proceedure, no more no less

And this is mostly to give rick props for making me laugh more than I should have, and somewhat to clarify my intent earlier. Not proof or even great evidence, but an anecdote.


Oh I thought I was further back. ... swear i saw a quote of me?! Idk, thanks for condolences Ferrous (it was also all black from the primary side accross a parking lot ..... and no, no I am not just saying things that help me sleep at night after being so retarded, of course not; Nor am I second guessing myself everytime I see a newer bike now)


Hey, maybe dumb idea, BUT is there anyway the cam could be off and we're thinking about the wrong part of the bike? (I hear many owners remove shims for some reason. Honestly never been in there (my dad us afraid if it, says there was shims and gears and stuff everywhere and he slappen the cover eight back on), but if the guide us slipping off and on the cam somehow, it would explain these symptoms pretty well.) probably stupid or impossible or unlikely, but maybe we're looking too high?

Edit a million, well 4 I think or 3
I missed your post above, I feel like I used to be earlier in thus thread, (I know, I'm crazy) if you have the money to spare I advocate your approach if not simply because the stock stuff that is good is there when you need it. That being said, don't hold your breath, these bikes tend to not behave as expected. There is a possibility your new set up will leave you stranded and in search of more answers, and maybe there's even a cheap answer (an evil rat compressing your valve spring muh ha ha) jokes, but the answer maybe as surprising as that If I were to wager, I'd bet that's why Ferrous advises a more methodical approach, and he sounds like he has a good diagnostic plan for ya Let us know if it works out (we know you will if it don't! As you clearly know of this great resource.)

Edit a million and one,it took us three dedicated years and over 30 passive years to get our ironhead back on the road, last month. I've had to do and redo almost everything, I feel your pain. I hope I didn't come off as satirical or anything, I say what I mean, no more no less

Last edited by IronHeadRon; 3 Days Ago at 01:14.. Reason: explain weirdness in post nd respond to Ferrous
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  #28  
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Just a thought.

Are the new split nuts split all the way through ?

Just trying to imagine why they may not be working properly. If the split hasn't been cut all the way through the nuts wouldn't compress on the screw.

Thin hacksaw blade would fix that.
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  #29  
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....how's it going), still stalking the mailman or waiting for a chance to work or did something get done (if so.......
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