The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Drivetrain > Sportster Motorcycle Transmission, Clutch, Primary & Secondary Drive
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Sportster Motorcycle Transmission, Clutch, Primary & Secondary Drive Transmission, Clutch and primary or secondary drive problems, advice, and/or how tos.

Active Threads
0 Axe's Harley History K/XL, FL, & Choppers vids
Last Post: axe
Posted On: 27 Minutes Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 379
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 38 Minutes Ago
Replies: 29,927
Views: 1,759,635
0 Sportster Oil Pressure and Dynamics
Last Post: Iron Mike
Posted On: 59 Minutes Ago
Replies: 355
Views: 23,108
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 37,974
Views: 4,782,857
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 54,835
Views: 9,354,076
0 New here
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 26
0 What song do you have stuck in your head?
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,574
Views: 301,351
0 "S" model specific Q&A
Last Post: Buellbomb
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,120
Views: 481,952
0 Stock vs. Modified (Stage 1)
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 300
Views: 117,506
0 61st birthday road trip, 23/10/18-25/10/18
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 241
0 My 1968 XLCH
Last Post: Pop Alexandr
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 160
Views: 34,119
0 Latest toy arrived... 1967 Sportster XLB
Last Post: thefrenchowl
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 278
0 drum brake pivot question
Last Post: Kit352
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 84
0 New here
Last Post: JaffHooole
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 61
0 Shovster build take2
Last Post: billeuze
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 327
Views: 47,789
0 alternator
Last Post: SHAKY DAVE
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 109
0 1972 Build thread please subscribe
Last Post: Gold Member
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 179
Views: 28,867
0 Installing cams
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 327
0 Clutch Went Out of Adjustment
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 360
0 Compression test Q
Last Post: Doc308
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 413
0 Back at it… Tracker to XRTT tribute project
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 169
0 XLRT Build
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 177
0 stress killer
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 448
Views: 101,225
0 Range With EFI 4.5 Gal Tank
Last Post: Wheelhorse
Posted On: 18 Hours Ago
Replies: 174
Views: 90,300
0 Looking for jets for a Keihin butterfly.....
Last Post: johnnyjellybean
Posted On: 19 Hours Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 350
0 Magneto Sportster's 1964 XLH Restoration Project
Last Post: mvent
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 121
Views: 22,374
0 how many run baffles, run open, or just run stock
Last Post: 84rzv500r
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 414
Views: 104,020
0 TC88A-EX Maps
Last Post: Highly-Dangerous
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 27
Views: 1,185
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 8,032
Views: 1,481,509
0 trans corner reinforcement 54-72
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 191
Views: 49,332
More...
Members Birthdays
vt883, Danno, Otis_hd (72), Fisherman (71), New Girl (65), soup (60), motormyk (53), leo, UncleSmitty (45), bryguy1977, AudiloveS4 (31)
View Poll Results: Stock Spring plate, has it gone bad on you
Solid Mount- (2003 and earlier) Still Good (below 50k) 65 21.38%
Rubber Mount (2004+)- Still Good (below 50k) 106 34.87%
YES -Solid Mount 10,000-20,000 5 1.64%
YES -Solid Mount 20,000-30,000 4 1.32%
YES -Solid Mount 30,000-40,000 6 1.97%
YES -Solid Mount 40,000-50,000 3 0.99%
YES -Solid Mount 50,000 + 3 0.99%
YES -Rubber Mount 10,000-20,000 26 8.55%
YES -Rubber Mount 20,000-30,000 30 9.87%
YES -Rubber Mount 30,000-40,000 11 3.62%
YES -Rubber Mount 40,000-50,000 4 1.32%
YES -Rubber Mount 50,000+ 6 1.97%
No Solid Mount 50,000+ 19 6.25%
No Rubber Mount 50,000+ 16 5.26%
Voters: 304. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #321  
Old 4 Days Ago
Nibelungen's Avatar
Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
Senior Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Emilia, Italy
Posts: 2,786
Sportster/Buell Model: xl883n Iron (2019 engine)
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xl Hugger (sold)
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2001
Reputation: 12359327
Nibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
Since I had a clutch issue recently (Thread), I decided to check the accumulated statistics from this poll thread - The results:

Spring Plate Failure Poll

>>> Rigid Mount Engine
Upto 50,000mi (84 Resp):
Good = 65 -- 77%
Bad == 19 -- 23%

Over 50,000mi (22 Resp):
Good = 19 -- 86%
Bad == 3 --- 14%

>>> Rubber Mount Engine
Upto 50,000mi (217 Resp):
Good = 106 -- 49%
Bad == 111 -- 51%

Over 50,000mi (22 Resp):
Good = 16 --- 73%
Bad == 6 ---- 27%


The over 50K numbers interest me most - If this problem was a wear issue, wouldn't the failure numbers (%) go up with more miles on the bike, especially after 50K miles?

The poll did not specifically inquire whether the Spring Plate was replaced without it failing - or whether the longer reported miles were after such replacement.

The results (which are, of course, anecdotal only) show most failures before 40K on rigid mounts or 30K for rubber mounts.

I wonder if this failure is related to something other than simply wear,
such as variations in:
mfr quality control?
assembling qc?
riding style?

Very interesting...

IXL _______ >>>> My Motorcycle Chronicles Are Here <<<<
IMHO riding style is paramount
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 4 Days Ago
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 3,071
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3795674
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
Since I had a clutch issue recently (Thread), I decided to check the accumulated statistics from this poll thread - The results:

Spring Plate Failure Poll

>>> Rigid Mount Engine
Upto 50,000mi (84 Resp):
Good = 65 -- 77%
Bad == 19 -- 23%

Over 50,000mi (22 Resp):
Good = 19 -- 86%
Bad == 3 --- 14%

>>> Rubber Mount Engine
Upto 50,000mi (217 Resp):
Good = 106 -- 49%
Bad == 111 -- 51%

Over 50,000mi (22 Resp):
Good = 16 --- 73%
Bad == 6 ---- 27%


The over 50K numbers interest me most - If this problem was a wear issue, wouldn't the failure numbers (%) go up with more miles on the bike, especially after 50K miles?

The poll did not specifically inquire whether the Spring Plate was replaced without it failing - or whether the longer reported miles were after such replacement.

The results (which are, of course, anecdotal only) show most failures before 40K on rigid mounts or 30K for rubber mounts.

I wonder if this failure is related to something other than simply wear,
such as variations in:
mfr quality control?
assembling qc?
riding style?

Very interesting...
It is. After reading this I went out to the shop (garage) and found my spring plate. It's pristine having only a couple thousand miles on it. It's pretty simple. Two steel plates with leaf springs holding the plates slightly separated, held together by brass rivets. Mines' nominally .205" thick and .190" compressed so it "squishes" .015" Pretty complicated compared to the simplicity of the XR pieces.

But why do they fail? I dunno... only thing that comes to mind is that the steel (leaf) springs between the plates elongate (slightly) as the plates are compressed. Maybe this gnaws away at the rivets 'til they fail.

IF That was the case it's life would probably be measured in cycles, how many times the spring plate is compressed. Around town riding would put put failure far earlier than road riders putting on many miles without using the clutch.

Any other ideas? The one thing we KNOW is that they do fail and the results aren't pretty...
__________________
2017 XL1200C in SE Wisconsin, USA
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 4 Days Ago
IXL2Relax's Avatar
IXL2Relax IXL2Relax is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Let Freedom Ring in PA
Posts: 9,366
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883►1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 1994
IXL2Relax has disabled reputation
Default

To me, the most certain fact is that the failure rate for Rubber Mount Engines (in this poll) is more than double the rate for Rigid Mount Engines. That has to be a significant factor in whatever the cause.

Although the engine vibrations on the rubber mount models were somewhat removed from the rider, those vibrations were not actually reduced. In fact, the rubber isolators simply allowed the vibrations to shake the engine, almost unrestrained.

To our knowledge, the MoCo made no alteration in the spring plate design or manufacturing at the time the rubber mount engine models were introduced that would account for why those models fail more. And, they did not alter the rubber engine mounts later to correct the problem nor stop using the spring plate design.

I doubt the cause of the spring plate failures can or will be definitively identified.

But what we do know makes one wonder, why?

IXL _______ >>>> My Motorcycle Chronicles Are Here <<<<
__________________
### The ride is more enjoyable to nowhere in particular! ###
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 4 Days Ago
Andy56 Andy56 is offline
Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 424
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200T
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Reputation: 198699
Andy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant futureAndy56 has a brilliant future
Default

I have seen pictures of the spring broken and some with rivets missing so there is two types of failure.

For the rivets I think as they have to be loose to allow the plates to move in and out there is a wear point.

I did wonder if peoples penchant to experiment with different oils might have anything to do with a brass rivet failure?
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 3 Days Ago
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 3,071
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3795674
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
To me, the most certain fact is that the failure rate for Rubber Mount Engines (in this poll) is more than double the rate for Rigid Mount Engines. That has to be a significant factor in whatever the cause.
I'd take the poll results with a grain of salt. It's not a statistically valid sampling. Probably the most valid thing would be to lump the responses together and look at miles to failure.
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 3 Days Ago
Bluto Bluto is offline
Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: California
Posts: 412
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200R Roadster
Sportster/Buell Year: 2008
Other Motorcycle Model: Norton 850 Commando
Other Motorcycle Year: 1973
Reputation: 1125195
Bluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond reputeBluto has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
To me, the most certain fact is that the failure rate for Rubber Mount Engines (in this poll) is more than double the rate for Rigid Mount Engines. That has to be a significant factor in whatever the cause.

Although the engine vibrations on the rubber mount models were somewhat removed from the rider, those vibrations were not actually reduced. In fact, the rubber isolators simply allowed the vibrations to shake the engine, almost unrestrained.

To our knowledge, the MoCo made no alteration in the spring plate design or manufacturing at the time the rubber mount engine models were introduced that would account for why those models fail more. And, they did not alter the rubber engine mounts later to correct the problem nor stop using the spring plate design.

I doubt the cause of the spring plate failures can or will be definitively identified.

But what we do know makes one wonder, why?

IXL _______ >>>> My Motorcycle Chronicles Are Here <<<<
Being that the rubber mount bikes are about 10% heavier and 10% more powerful that might have something to do with it
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC