Rubbermount_EVO Front brake combination not working well. Suggestions?

[geekonabike]

I'm wondering what might be the best kind of front brake I can get for my '06 883 "standard" rubbermount without going too crazy (probably not going to look for a GSXR front end). It came with a single disc up front (and I want to say two calipers?) when I bought it in 2011.

In 2012 my rotor was warped (another story) so after looking around a little I bought a "Bikers Choice Front Stainless Steel Mirror Rotor Steel," which is a floating-disc design I thought would work well. It was about $140 at the time.

Maybe it was really all for show? It was OK but kind of underwhelming. So I thought well, let's try a stainless steel line up front. Not much difference, unlike when I did the same on my 250 Ninja back in the day. So let's try some sintered pads (but not "race pads")? Frightening at first, until they wore in but really not an improvement, unless I like making my rotor hotter, which is OK if it can take it. I mean I can lock that front up so I guess they're strong enough but modulating it in that last 25% or so before lock-up is difficult.

I think the disc might be the main problem, maybe with a contribution from the pads but I'm not sure. I've been pretty busy so after the disc replacement the rest has been handled by a pretty reputable shop. His only comments so far have been, "not impressed by that floating rotor," and "I could scuff up the pads a bit to see if they can grip better." I did ask him to check for air in the line.

Maybe a completely different disc/calliper combination? I don't think I want to buy a used "S" or Roadster front end for it, though if one showed up on my doorstep I wouldn't turn it away.

[sml1226]

Those calipers suck. Messing with your master bore could potentially help the feel, but they're still wimpy and do not inspire much confidence.

Grab a 08+ Touring caliper and a 300mm rotor (11.8"). Stock 1/2" master cylinder should be fine for a single. Rotor hub is identical, but the newer brakes are set up for the slightly larger rotors, so you'll want to use a bigger one than the stock 11.5" to get full pad sweep.

That will be one of the cheapest direct bolt on options to get much better brakes. The (slightly) larger rotor and nearly triple the caliper piston area will provide a lot more stopping power, which should translate to a lot more stopping power before you hit that lock point, rather than wimpy brakes until you get there. There are better options for sure, but this one is cheaper than something like Performance Machine's calipers, and doesn't require fab work or lots of shimming like adapting parts from other bikes.

When I did mine, it was cheaper to just buy a new caliper from HD than a used one. That also gets you fresh seals and new pads. OE rotors on the newer Sportsters are good and some of the cheapest floating 300mm rotors you can find. With the stock caliper, you already have a "floating" caliper. Not much need for a floating rotor as well. Opposed piston calipers like these touring parts or the XR calipers are where you're going to potentially make use of the floating rotor.

[Screw Loose Dan]

You may interested in reading Whittlebeast's thread on the various things he did and tried (it's a little hard to follow, but it'll probably give you an idea).

Here's my thread on using a BT/VROD Brembo brakes.

And, my thread on using XR1200 calipers (although I only used them in a dual caliper setup). Some guys have had good success with single XR1200 caliper (sorry I don't have a thread as an example handy).

One thing to note, all three of these above threads are on 2007+ bikes which do use different fluid and have different master cylinders, so there might be some minor differences, but all the parts will bolt on. If you use used parts, just be mindful and be sure to flush things extremely well.

Pads can make a significant difference in feel and lever response. Pads aren't particularly expensive and can usually be replaced easily, so might be worth playing with different brands/setups, plenty of options.

For rotors, I've stuck with Harley rotors. The XR1200X rotor (PN 41822-10), which is floating, is a direct bolt on part. Compared to some aftermarket options they seem reasonably priced. See my BT/VROD caliper thread above for the rotors used with that setup.

Do you know the last time your master cylinder was rebuilt? Something to thing about.

[Diogenes415]

Originally Posted by geekonabike

... I mean I can lock that front up so I guess they're strong enough but modulating it in that last 25% or so before lock-up is difficult...

How much lever travel do you have before lockup? Have you replaced either the caliper or the master cylinder?

What do you use to clean your brakes? Have you ever tried acetone?

I ask because the brakes on my 2006 XL883C or a a one-finger affair during most riding. They're strong and predictable.

[ReddTigger]

if you put a floating rotor and a floating caliper you may have crappy braking.. only 1 should be floating the other should be solid.. )Typically*(

[Folkie]

I think the stock brakes on my '15 CB are pretty good.

[geekonabike]

Thanks for the replies so far. I feel a lot more informed now.

So are the stock calipers "floating"? That might be one of the problems. I don't know enough of what I'm looking for for that to be obvious to me.

I might start with just changing out to a stock rotor, since I never tried it along with the stainless lines, since I replaced the rotor before the lines. BUT I am intrigued by the other suggestions, so will sleep on it for a bit. (Probably quite a bit. I tend to ask questions a long time before acting when it comes to improvements, versus when "I need to get back on the road NOW!")

[sml1226]

You see how there is no piston on the inner side of the caliper? The caliper "floats" on a pin, and the piston-less side is drawn in by that sliding action. A piston on the other side allows a fixed caliper, with the pistons moving both pads. They still self adjust to some degree regardless, being a hydraulic system, but floating calipers are going to move more, so the benefits of floating rotors aren't as pronounced.

As for floating calipers and rotors being bad, HD has been doing it stock for a while now. The floating rotors have been OE on Sportsters since 14, I believe, and the calipers are still floaters after the swap from the previous rubbermount calipers.

There's a bigger chance that the "Biker's Choice" rotor is just no good than you having issues due to it being a floating rotor specifically. But I don't know that it is the cause. It could be the pads, like you mentioned.

I thought my brakes were terrible in stock form though, with two of those calipers, OE pads, and fixed rotors. You might just not like what they are capable of offering you, regardless of pads and rotors used.

[geekonabike]

OK Thanks. I was aware of the two types of calipers--those with opposing actuated pistons and those with only pistons on one side, and how the two work--and totally "get" your explanation. I just wasn't aware that the latter was the "floating" design but that makes total sense.

I'm a little surprised, looking back at the email confirmation of the purchase, that I bought something from "Biker's Choice" because anytime I saw their stuff it struck me as "me-too/generic" stuff, fairly or not. But maybe the promise and the price were right. I note that the link to that product is gone now but it has been about six years so no surprise there.

For my own curiosity I might try a stock rotor, and go from there. It wouldn't be the first time I've gone through multiple solutions. I think I'm on my fourth solution to my overactive breathers that soaked the OEM ham can setup, and learned something each time. Cheaper than what I'm paying for my daughter at University of Oklahoma.

Thank you again!

[rocketmangb]

Im going to try a Nightrod 4 piston Caliper and an HD floating rotor,EBC HH pads,Magnum Stainless brake hose