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  #21  
Old 28th January 2013
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More impressive results. Great job. Looks like I need to step up my tuning game this spring when I return to the dyno room.
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  #22  
Old 28th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madnss View Post
More impressive results. Great job. Looks like I need to step up my tuning game this spring when I return to the dyno room.
Thanks Ryan. Your setup should pound this one, no question about that.

I sure chased my tail on this deal. It was supposed to be easy! It ended up being a case study in how not to modify a bike! Read on for the saga ...

We installed the motor kit, and we did a handful of other minor things to the bike, none of which we thought would change much. Did the heat cycles, started pulling the bike, and it was just flat. We were barely able to break 100.

WTF? HAMMER Dan and I scratched our heads on that for awhile. At first, I thought it was wet sumping. I installed a bypass like the one I documented here many years ago and tried it again.

Well, after pulling it a bit, I started collapsing lifters. Clack-clack-clack, and the cranking compression came way up, both signs that I took too much oil pressure out of it. But the smallest jet I had was a 145, which apparently was too big.

So then, thinking I was clever, I came up with this:



Notice the needle valve in line with the pressure bleed-off. Now I could control the oil pressure. Rolled it back on the dyno and set the pressure just above the valvetrain's threshold of pain and pounded on the bike some more. Still 100 freakin' horsepower. WTF?

By now, HAMMER Dan and I are panicking. We contacted Tyler and told him to hold off installing his kit until we got to the bottom of this.

We pulled the top end off, checked everything, it all looked fine. But everything was sure pointing to the engine kit. We came up with a theory about how the dome configuration could be hurting the power. It was a bit far-fetched, but we were reaching at this point.

To test our theory, I took a new set of full 30 degree race pistons and machined the domes in a different way, removing the issue we were imagining. Took me a whole day of messing with the CAD/CAM program and machining the domes. Put the motor all back together, got it on the dyno, and there wasn't a dime's worth of difference in the result.

So by now, we're feeling pretty damn stupid. It's amazing how smart you feel when you pull a big number and how stupid you feel when you can't make squat for power. While I'm at McDonald's getting lunch I go ahead and fill out an application

We decide we'll go back to the 106hp flat top arrangement and make sure that still works. But hey, before we do, just to be complete, let's back out that one other minor change that we're sure couldn't possibly hurt the result. A few busted knuckles later, we're doing pulls again, and it's banging off 104's and 105's no problem. Holy crap! But the clutch is also slipping.

So off the dyno and back onto the lift it goes. Trick new conversion pistons go back in. New clutch pack. Put it all back together, get it broke in and on the dyno, stand on the gas, and ...

80 some horsepower. WTF? The damn thing runs like I've got the throttle half open.

So here I am cussing as I do the compression check, which comes out fine, and HAMMER Dan wanders over, flashlight in hand, looks up inside the pipe, and says Houston, we have a problem. The ~!@#$%^ wire broke and the valve closed. Fercrissakes, what's next?

I fixed that, warmed it back up, stood on the gas, and our power was back. In no time we were banging off 106's and 107's. A little tweaking on the timing and we got the 108.8 pull and shut it off. Call Tyler and tell him to put his motor together!

It only took us a week, but we finally got it tested!
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  #23  
Old 28th January 2013
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Did you ever imagine you could be having this much fun? Glad you got the cure, yeah, probably doesn't like being choked off!
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  #24  
Old 28th January 2013
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Like you are always telling folks...exhaust matters.
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  #25  
Old 28th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterpaul View Post
Did you ever imagine you could be having this much fun? Glad you got the cure, yeah, probably doesn't like being choked off!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico 05R View Post
Like you are always telling folks...exhaust matters.
Yeah, the pipe deal was just the last thing at the end of the saga, kind of icing on the cake after chasing our tails for a week.

I wear earmuffs when I dyno a bike, and I honestly didn't notice the reduced noise level. HAMMER Dan was at the other end of the shop and he noticed it so he had a pretty good hunch about what happened.

It was something else going on though that was really the culprit, something we had changed thinking that it wouldn't hurt and might help. Not related to the heads or engine kit at all. I'm not going to say what it was, I'd rather my competition figure that out for themselves. I did write and tell one person, only because I told him to do the same thing to his bike, and I had to retract my advice.

In the end, this new piston added just about what we thought it would to the result. It's not some huge gain, 2-3hp is all, but when you get to this level, that's big. And it doesn't cost anything ... the pistons are the same price, and we're running the same compression. So if it's free and it adds something, why not do it? We like that kind of change!

We had invested a lot of time and effort and money into developing this arrangement, and we were sure that it would only help, and we were so confident in it that we actually shipped a set of the pistons and placed a big order for more pistons. So the thought that it actually was hurting the result, well, it had us in a panic. But everything turned out as planned.

We have more ideas in the works, things that won't add to the cost and should add to the result while still keeping it an overall mild, streetable, well mannered package, but we're going to be more careful to test before we send things out, that's the lesson here.
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  #26  
Old 28th January 2013
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Hey makes for a good read anyway. Glad you got it all working. Can you give us a idea of what that other little part is you were messing with?
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  #27  
Old 28th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler.woodard04 View Post
Hey makes for a good read anyway. Glad you got it all working. Can you give us a idea of what that other little part is you were messing with?
Nope

We want to let the other guys figure it out for themselves!
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  #28  
Old 28th January 2013
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Ah. Posted the same time you did and didnt catch that.
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  #29  
Old 28th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post


Great results. I see why you put in the new valve springs! Looks like limiting the revs to 7400-7500 would still net the 108.8. Does the calculated 1.1 hp come from a slight bump in compression?
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  #30  
Old 28th January 2013
stimbrell stimbrell is offline
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Interesting that when I had a 1250 stage two with 04 - 06 1200 heads, with full supporting cast, on my 06, I was told rpms over 6,800 would cause crank faliure, now 7,700 seems to be no problem, did HD update the bottom end and I missed it?
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