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  #1  
Old 1 Week Ago
The Doctor71 The Doctor71 is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1971
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Other Motorcycle Model: xl1200cp
Other Motorcycle Year: 2011
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Default Voltage Regulator - CE-212 or HD 74711-08 - which one is better ? 2011 xl1200cp

2011 xl1200cp

Been chasing a DTC P0562 - ECM Voltage Low - but it's very intermittent, meaning:
  • occasionally, maybe once a week, the charging system fails
  • but the moment I roll my bike back into the garage, and start checking stuff, the charging system is working flawlessly, EVERY TIME.
  • this has occurred at irregular / unpredictable moments over the past 4 weeks.
  • should the failure occur, it's always been within the first 2-4 miles from home..... thankfully I haven't been stranded (yet).
I also monitor Battery Voltage using my PowerVision. The logs clearly show the voltage drop (< 12.0v) when the P0562 failure hits.... and normal charging ~ 13.7 - 13.8v at other times.

I've crawled thru the basics, following the HD Electrical Diagnostic Manual, doing test after test attempting to locate faulty:
  • ground(s)
  • connector(s) @ #47 & #77.... plus the fuse block & system & starter relays
  • stator (50-60 VAC @ ~2500-3000 rpm) and/or voltage regulator
  • battery (12.9-13.1v at rest)
  • wires (aka continuity & wiggle wire tests)
To date, I've found nothing to explain the intermittent P0562. I'd like to think the next option is to swap out the black box --> the Voltage Regulator.

Which brings me to my question(s):
  • which Voltage Regulator to use ? I've narrowed my choice to the stock HD VR p/n 74711-08 or the Cycle Electric CE-212.
    This thread with 216 posts --> Shunt vs Series Voltage Regulators <-- suggests the "Series" CE-212 might be a reasonable replacement.... but the thread is 6-9 years old.
  • what is the state of the nation, today ? Is the CE-212 a better option vs the stock HD p/n 74711-08 ?
  • or just pick one & go with it ?
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  #2  
Old 1 Week Ago
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IronHeadRon IronHeadRon is offline
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Well, seeing as I have 2 50+ yo old school regulators (I have a thread with pictures if anyone cares) both working great, I think your last bullet "pick one and go with it" would be suitable

Reasons I may be wrong
-planned obsolescence (I hear good and bad obout HD here, they say the panhead was made because nobody needed a new bike after the knuckle, but that could just be knuckle owners sunken cost fallacy, on the other hand they have more bikes still on the road than most)
-extra load (maybe it's just super easy to regulate 3 components with 5 circuts, if you have a radio and lights and whatnot, maybe you reach a point where it matters)

However, I doubt these apply, batteries are getting better and better as well. Even if it does 12V half the time you'd probably be fine.

But, I know not of the specifics you speak, just that regulating voltage is super easy especially in a scenario where so much waste is acceptable (now converting AC to DC at a decent efficiency is hard, they do wacky things like transferring back and forth, but just straight up DC voltage control is known well in many ways)

Last edited by IronHeadRon; 1 Week Ago at 05:28.. Reason: emphasize THIS WAS NOT A COMPLETE ANSWER
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  #3  
Old 1 Week Ago
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IronHeadRon IronHeadRon is offline
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Yo did I kill this thread is or there nobody qualified to answer properly. I can edit my post to oblivion if you want OP (don't know how to delete), sorry, thought my 2 cents may be worth something but not at the expense of you not getting an answer.......
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  #4  
Old 1 Week Ago
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bustert bustert is offline
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well, that happened to me, went on for several months till it failed completely.
turned out to be the junction where the reg pigtail attached to the pmg stator.
it acted like an alternator with a slipping belt, produced voltage and would ohm out but hardly and amps.

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Old 1 Week Ago
The Doctor71 The Doctor71 is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1971
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Nice looking stator.... ouch

Never say never.... but my current thinking is, that's not my problem.

Between intermittent failures, I can ride 500+ miles (over multiple days) without a glitch..... at least according to the PowerVision logs. Voltage fluctuates with RPM as expected..... never drops to < 12.3v, except when starting. Each time I check the OHM readings & VAC output on the stator, they are well within specs.

In any event, we continue to work the problem. My plan is to swap out the current HD 74711-08 VR & see what (if anything) changes.

My original question re: Voltage Regulator, remains:
  • is the CE-212 a better choice over the HD 74711-08 ?
I'm hopeful someone running the CE-212 will comment on fitment and function. Otherwise I'll pick one & just run with it.
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Old 1 Week Ago
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor71 View Post
I also monitor Battery Voltage using my PowerVision. The logs clearly show the voltage drop (< 12.0v) when the P0562 failure hits.... and normal charging ~ 13.7 - 13.8v at other times.
I would double check that. On my '17 Powervision shows system voltage right at .3V less that what I see with a meter connected to my charger pigtail which attaches directly to the battery terminals.

FWIW I'd definitely go with the Cycle Electric regulator. They don't list one for my '17 or I'd be running one.
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  #7  
Old 1 Week Ago
The Doctor71 The Doctor71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
I would double check that. On my '17 Powervision shows system voltage right at .3V less that what I see with a meter connected to my charger pigtail which attaches directly to the battery terminals.
Yes, I noticed that 0.3V difference too. AFAIK, the PowerVision reports exactly what the ECM sends out on the data bus..... after all that's what's the PV is watching, the serial data bus.

During my controlled tests on my 2011 XL, I've observed the battery voltage directly at the + post is 0.3v higher than the voltage:
  • at the System Relay #85, and
  • at Connector #91 DLC Pin #4, and
  • reported on my PowerVision battery guage
I figured this was ok & assumed the difference was due to the ECM consuming the 0.3V.... but I don't know. Just speculation on my part.

I thank you for the comments. I think I'll pull the trigger on the CE-212.... and run with it.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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just like everything else, there is hype
i agree with mr. iron my on sport still carries the original.
when the problem is, it worked when things were right and rpm sensitive.
it passed all tests until total failure.
if you make a test harness, most car part stores have a machine to test regulators.
i am NOT one to throw parts till it is fixed.
i am not saying the new tech is bad, it isn't and operates with less loss. it is sorta like the old tv's with transform power supplies vs the newer switch mode power supplies. they are better, yep and stingy to boot but they are WAY more parts to fail.
not my money so go feel warm and fuzzy if needed, i'll wait til i have to, might be another 20 years

BTW: the stator my look burnt but it was not, if there was enough wire end sticking out, i would have attached the pigtail again.
no loss anywho, i re-wound it, can be 3ph or 1ph.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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IronHeadRon IronHeadRon is offline
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Well Doc (didn't realize it was you somehow) if it comes down to your own testing please update this thread.

FWIW (not much considering the placebo effects) one person said the following I thuer review

" Money well spent, I'd recommend to anyone experiencing ignition problems or issues.
Does exactly what it's suppose to. Bike appears to run smoother and stronger compared to OEM VR. "

I don't know how a regulator could "run stronger" (maybe less loss from induction and what not?!)
It's 170 ish before tax. The oem repo is 83. I have been quite happy with Dennis kirk in the past so I think there is an advantage (why else would they carry it?)

EDIT: WAIT A SECOND, WAS THAT GUY WHO LEFT THE REVIEW RETARDED? isn't the ignitiona completelydifferentsystem with points or a distributor or solid state or something ....... did they combine the circuts in later years? Should the ignition do its own igniting based on stroke and position?! That current shouldneven pass through tge regulator except the small amounts your generator produces from a kick, and that should be passed back to the generator at that low voltage. Am I missing something, have bikes drasticallychanged the ingnition?

Last edited by IronHeadRon; 1 Week Ago at 21:31.. Reason: you can replace "kick" with " first couple starter revs" above ..... shouldn't be powered through regulator either
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  #10  
Old 6 Days Ago
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadRon View Post
Am I missing something?
Yes. Any understanding of what's being discussed.
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