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Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

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  #671  
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Yes, each cylinder got 2 oil drain holes. I haven't figured out yet if the hole inside the cylinder bore is low enough for 5" stroke (so oil ring won't go below it at BDC).

I should've done that before honing, because if I'll have to braze that hole, I'm afraid the bore could get distorted a little.
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thanks Petr.at first I was going to mention the oil drain in the cylinder didn't look like it had been lowered,then I realized these likely weren't stock cylinders.
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  #673  
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Originally Posted by brucstoudt View Post
thanks Petr.at first I was going to mention the oil drain in the cylinder didn't look like it had been lowered,then I realized these likely weren't stock cylinders.
Yes, they are brand new (no head bolt holes were drilled) Dytch 3 3/8" bore 5.53" tall 900 base pattern cylinders.
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  #674  
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Quote:
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(no head bolt holes were drilled)
this came up here before.how do you locate them? do the cylinders have fire rings?
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  #675  
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Yes, cylinders had fire rings, .122" and .125" tall (pretty strange, because other dimensions perfectly matched each other).

Bolt hole centers were marked (punched), so all I had to do was to align the cylinders on the drill press. Since I'm no machine expert, I had to invent the wheel as always. So I'd take a magnifying glass, align the drill tip in one axis, rotate the chuck 90 degrees, move my head 90 degrees and align it in the other axis.

Pretty interesting that cylinders had 900 base pattern and were punched for 1000 head pattern.

If I were to buy a drill press again, I'd get a 1950-1960's USSR-made industrial one - they are around 6-7 ft tall, weigh around 900 lbs and can be set pretty high above the table, so I can easily fit a coordinate table and a vise on top if needed or even get a globe table (the one that can be rotated in 3 axis). That would help a lot with case drilling, and heavier drill press construction would handle end milling much better.

Started painting the frame with a primer. Run out of it, 1 can was enough for layers on the frame and 1/2 layer on the rear fork (exhaust bracket didn't get any).



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Well, that canned epoxy primer turned out to be a piece of crap. I can easily scratch it with my nail to bare metal.

Guess I'm buying a spray gun and 2K epoxy primer.
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2 pak stuff can be tricky.

I wouldn't use it anymore. There are very good acrylics now that will do what you want. And they don't require the respirators you SHOULD be using if your spraying 2K.
Maybe check out "Chassis Black"
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Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
2 pak stuff can be tricky.

I wouldn't use it anymore. There are very good acrylics now that will do what you want. And they don't require the respirators you SHOULD be using if your spraying 2K.
Maybe check out "Chassis Black"

Well, considering "two-pack" is not necessarily true epoxy -- and acrylic can mean a ton of things from synthetic aklyd enamels to urethanes with enough isos to give you a neuro attack in minutes; me thinks someone is a few years to decades out of date.

First, epoxy primers, true epoxy primers were developed to take the place of acrylic primers, which had taken the place of lacquer primers. Epoxy primers have been the go to for volume and corrosion protection for more than 20 years. Epoxy primers are SUBSTANTIALLY tougher than acrylic primers. Most "cheap" acrylic primers are synthetic aklyd -- basically the same formula as rustoleum. Acrylic urethane primers are much tougher and require a second part . . . hence the original "two pack" designation. Because the second part was an epoxy family hardener . .. they became generically known as epoxy two pack. They aren't -- they are just in the family of polymers.


Second, the rattle can used by the OP is not true epoxy primer. It's actually an acrylic hybrid. It will harden after about a week -- but it will never be rock hard -- and shouldn't be.


Third, epoxy primers come in at least four varieties. The first variety is "2K". It refers to the first generation of epoxies to hit the market about 30 years ago. It has no talc content and does not sand well. It is a base only. Your tip off you have first gen 2K is if the cans come marked A and B instead of primer and catalyst. A&B style specifically says "no reducer" where as primer/catalyst can be reduced up to 10% to give a seal coat. This primer almost always comes in two distinct varieties -- primer, which is meant to only have very light sanding if any; and primer-surfacer which has talc in the formula to promote bridging of pinholes, filling of sand scratches, and allows the product to sand smoothly.

The second variety of "2K" epoxy primer is often labeled Direct to Metal (DTM) or Direct to Substrate (DTS). This primer is almost always high build primer and contains a fair amount of talc to easy sanding. It is a "softer" and more flexible primer. A good finger nail can "scratch it." It is meant to be then be sealed with a catalyzed sealant -- or flow coated with reduced primer. This primer cures hard enough to sand after about 24 hours (you "can" often sand in 4-6 hours; 2 if you bake it). However, it still tends to shrink a wee bit. I prefer to let it stand 48-72 hours before sanding -- a week if I have the time.

The big thing to remember is that while the epoxy seals the metal -- the talc that allows it to sand nicely absorbs solvent. So, if you get dumb and wipe your freshly sanded panel with acetone . . . a fair amount goes into the primer and stays locked up. You then have a hot coat with your base -- with the chance of both solvent pops as well as wrinkling. That's why every manufacturer now has "post sanding cleaner" -- its gentle stuff that reduces the risk to almost zero.

The third variety is a "3K" DTM primer. It's 3K because of superior epoxy technology. It also has no isos -- which are the VERY nasty things you need a respirator AND a suit for. Isos are absorbed through the skin and their exposure is CUMULATIVE over time. Like 2K primer -- this stuff is beyond tough and very hard. It also sets faster and can be sanded in 3-6 hours without fear of any further shrinkage.

The final variety is also "3K" DTM -- but low VOC. This stuff has no isos, doesn't really smell too bad, and is a doll to work with.

I sprayed a tank, fender, horseshoe oil tank, fender struts, and tail lamp on Saturday afternoon in House of Kolor KDA3000 (3K) DTM low VOC. I used the same primer on my 69 sprint and my 59 XLH. Hard as a rock after 6 hours -- but sandable and flexible.

The last bike I sprayed in 2K DTM primer was in 2011. I've 10K miles on that paint job -- not one rock chip or anything else.

The last vehicle I sprayed with acrylic urethane primer was in 2010 -- that was my beater truck. The primer was THE problem with the paint job. It dried so hard it had no flex. Every rock that hit it took the primer and the paint with it.


Flex and a bit of give are OK in primers.

With rattle cans, only 2K is available over the shelf to hobbyists. It is about $25-30 per can and has a special plunger on the bottom to break a seal between the two parts. The "pot life" of the can is about 90 minutes to 2 hours depending on the temperature. It does a very good job.

Chassis black is a generic term for an acrylic urethane with hardener and a gloss reducer. It's tougher than acrylic enamels by a factor of 3. It's also known as tractor and implement paint. You can buy it at farm stores all over the US for peanuts -- it's even made by Valspar; which happens to make Chassis Black for resale by other companies. The Farm and Fleet by me even sells the hardner if you prefer quart cans and spray guns. A quart of black is $12 and a pint of hardener is $9 or so. I've sprayed a few bikes in it. Be forewarned that in strong sun the black becomes "muddy" after about 5 years. If you keep it waxed and mostly in the shade -- 10-15 years.

With regard to rattle cans of chassis black. Like other acrylic urethanes; the hardener does not become active until the presence of both moisture and air. Because the hardener is in the "epoxy" family -- manufacturers love to mark "epoxy" on paint cans. Lots of guys get bit by this.

And, yes, you do need a respirator. Acrylic urethanes almost always have isos in them. Even short exposures are bad news for your body -- it just accumulates and pretty much never leaves your system.

There are "2K" chassis black paints that really are epoxies -- and you pay quite a bit for them but they do work really well if you don't have spray equipment.


You can also tell the difference by looking at the full directions. If the primer can go on over any type of metal prep product (phosphoric acid, metal prep, or self-etch primer) it sure as heck is NOT epoxy. Epoxy in any form hates acid residue and will come off in sheets or wrinkle almost immediately.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
2 pak stuff can be tricky.

I wouldn't use it anymore. There are very good acrylics now that will do what you want. And they don't require the respirators you SHOULD be using if your spraying 2K.
Maybe check out "Chassis Black"
I would like to know more about these "acrylics".
Do you have any info?
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