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  #1  
Old 2 Weeks Ago
Bturkey Bturkey is offline
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Default tubing strength if pressed?

I'm building a frame and I have everything ready to go, but there is a part of the lower end of the primary cover that would go in a quarter inch into my tubing that I didn't account for. I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on pressing an indentation into the tubing so it wont hit?

It is the area around a bolt hole right next to the primary drain screw. I got the idea from the factory evo frame on the lower rails where there is a long press indentation into it. I was also wondering if it would be better to splice in some solid bar with that amount machined out of it.

The amount is a quarter of an inch, and the frame rails are 1" x .120" wall
Thoughts?
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So, it's a rigid and you don't need to allow extra clearance for vibration. I'm thinking it is OK if you can make the indentation without stressing that part of the frame. I would probably make up a jig of some sort to press the dent into it, maybe using a small vise or vise grips, and a slug the right shape to push into the tube. Then heat it in the exact place for the dent and then use the jig clamp to crush the steel in. Or if the frame is free of parts and you can move it around, maybe just a hammer while the frame is supported on an anvil. I would still heat the spot though. I think it has to be heated or the frame will end up with stress in it. That can be a real issue sometimes. I saw a Sportsman car around 20 years ago that someone welded a cross bar into the roll cage by welding one end first then forcing the bar into place and welding the other end. The car wouldn't turn so the guy who had built the original frame was sitting in the shop just looking at the car puzzled as to what the issue was, and he remembered his son had added the cross brace. He cut one end loose and the car frame visibly jumped back into it's correct position. He cut the bar completely out and made a new one and the car was back to the top of the heap once again. He is a famous car builder from the Ascot era, so no names.
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I was curious about using heat too. I would think that cold working the indentation into it would be better than heating, but I'm also not sure that the rest of the tubing wouldn't flatten out or deform wildly without heat. I was reading about people drilling holes in their frame to bolt stuff to, and people were freaking out saying they were weakening the frame too much. The place where I need the indentation would be supported on either side of it, connecting the two lower rails.

Any thoughts on slugging that area with solid bar and machining the groove out? The area is where the lower rails would angle out and start to head up to the axle plates, and I don't want to screw with figuring out the compound angle, so I was gonna bend the two angles(out and up) and slug them together with solid bar.sorry if that is kind of confusing
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[/IMG]

The second picture is the top view, and the diagonal lines represent the od of the tubing. The other lines were for layout.
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.120' wall is just .005" short of an eighth of an inch, pretty stout stuff. You'll need a hydraulic press and dies to do the job right. The bottom die needs a "U"-shaped channel the width of the tube dia. and as deep as the O.D. of the tubing plus 1/2" inch. Top punch should be the length of the flat you need plus 1/2". The extra half inch length gives you a quarter of an inch on each end to round over so the ends of the top punch don't create sharp creases where they end. The face that contacts the tube should have all edges broken, again to avoid sharp creases which lead to stress risers which lead to cracks.
Grinding/machining a flat will break through the tube wall. An easy fix for that is to make a piece out of 1/8" plate that will wall off the opening in the tubing you create when you make your relief cut. Then just add an eighth to the depth you need. Once the opening is there, it's a simple matter to shape the 1/8" "insert" and weld it in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesL View Post
.120' wall is just .005" short of an eighth of an inch, pretty stout stuff.

Grinding/machining a flat will break through the tube wall. An easy fix for that is to make a piece out of 1/8" plate that will wall off the opening in the tubing you create when you make your relief cut. Then just add an eighth to the depth you need. Once the opening is there, it's a simple matter to shape the 1/8" "insert" and weld it in.
This is a really good idea, and it eliminates any chance of stressing the rest of the frame.
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Thanks wedge. Any time you cut into tubing you want to put the wall back-- even a flat section is stronger than an open area.
Another thing I like to do when I drill through tubing is to make a sleeve the I.D. of the bolt that slides through the drilled hole. That sleeve gets TIGed or MIGed in place. Any bolt run through that set-up would be trying to telescope the sleeve lengthwise, not mashing the bare tube walls out of shape.
Either process can be left with a good looking weld showing or ground smooth.
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using a backer the same radius as the tubing with the shaping dies on top is a wonderful way to go. there is no machining, no fill in and the so called stress inducement would probably be nil. there are plenty of factory frames from various mfg that have this approach.
heat is a tricky subject, can help/can hurt. personally, i would go cold.
i assume the rail also prevents the plug from being removed???
i believe you posted about this project in the beginning and i posted what you might consider as an option to both clearance the frame and still be able to remove the plug.
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Often asked question: Using heat to bend, straighten or form steel parts. As a rule, if you can move metal around cold, do it. Heating should be done only when you can heat the entire part. Otherwise, you end up with areas of different hardness and the likelihood of creating stress risers at the edges of the heat affected area(s).
Even when just welding large areas or thicker materials, the part is pre-heated to around 350 deg. so the welding heat merges with the cooler areas more gradually.

As you can see in the pictures, H-D frames were heated thoroughly during assembly and still took a trip through an annealing furnace to normalize everything afterwards.
Bending a piece of wire back and forth causes "work hardening" and it'll eventually become brittle and break. Vibration can do the same thing over time and what are our ironheads but vibrations on wheels.
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Last edited by JonesL; 1 Week Ago at 18:35..
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