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  #131  
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Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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The 883 liners are plenty thick because as you say they use the same barrels but with smaller bores. The same really applies to the spigot
which will be made for the larger bore. That extra steel was part of the reason why 883s are often a few Kg heavier than their 1200 equivalent.


Do you know yet what the sequence of failure was in your engine?
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  #132  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley506d View Post
Sure i read somewhere the 883 and 1200 shared the same barrels, the 1200 just bored out, so yours should have plenty of thickness on the spigot area.
They do use the same barrels. FWIW.. The 1200, with it's larger bore, are 6 lbs. lighter by the pair.
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  #133  
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http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=388057
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  #134  
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TAKE NOTE:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
Since the 2009 model year, the 883 cylinder construction changed dramatically, and you can no longer bore them to 1200 at all.
(I see seajay beat me to the post)

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  #135  
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Good information seajay. Perhaps we can forgiven for not expecting things to change much over the years at HD!
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  #136  
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It's all about the $$$$$$$$$.
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  #137  
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IXL2 and Seajay say the true about this post stated in 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
Guys,

I just went to bore my first set of 2009 883 cylinders (at least I believe they're 09's, Dan is confirming).
The sleeve through the cylinder is significantly smaller o.d. than earlier cylinders. This cylinder will not accept a 3-1/2" bore.
The spigot on the cylinder is literally made of aluminum, with an iron sleeve running through the middle of it.
I made a first pass through the cylinder at 3.467" and I was literally into the aluminum in the spigot. The remainder of the cylinder was paper thin. No way you can do a 1200 with these cylinders.

My guess is that HD wants to sell cylinders into conversions, rather than have people bore out their old ones.


yet i found even this statement in this very forum... it's been made in 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
Vanmor you're getting good information here, but let me add one thing. Not all 883 cylinders are the same. Some have a different o.d. on the cylinder liner than others. I've never actually figured out which years have the smaller liners, but the smaller ones end up with a somewhat thin cylinder wall after boring to a 1200. It's especially thin when you start trying to do +.020 & +.030 overbores. It still works, lots and lots of people have bored those and still had successful conversions, don't get me wrong, but in general, thicker is better, as it holds a straight and round shape better under the heat and stress of a running motor. This is one of the advantages of our 1250 cylinders, we designed them with the thickest liner that we could physically fit within the bolt pattern:



If you look at the above pics and compare them to your cyls, you'll see how much thicker these liners are.

Cylinders from S&S and Zippers are made the same way, this isn't unique to us.

For the ultimate in strength, though, the Axtell full cast iron cylinders are the way to go. They're very strong and stiff since the entire thing is cast iron, and as a result they give the best ring seal possible. The disadvantages are increased weight and they don't dissipate heat as well. But they're very popular on race motors due to the strength, and in general, cooling isn't as big of a deal on a drag race or Bonneville motor anyway.

But anyway, boring factory 883 cylinders works fine on mild street applications, I'm sure it's been done to over 100,000 Sportsters over the years. As mentioned, a straight and round bore with proper cylinder wall clearance is incredibly important, and overboring 883 cylinders as opposed to using off-the-shelf 1200 cylinders allows you to achieve that, assuming the person doing the work knows how to do it properly. Good luck with your project.

then i found this from Zippers's site




and this from HD

https://app.box.com/s/k6og4v5ats


cheers
Daniele
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Last edited by Nibelungen; 2 Days Ago at 19:33..
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  #138  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Speed View Post
Do you know yet what the sequence of failure was in your engine?
no one can say for sure since the engine was totalled...

the crankpin broken... for no reason at all... as a factory defective part... since the bike had 47k kms and was stock and always serviced... and ran like a piano... that is a fact...

then my guess is that...
it was totally damaged in the last kms.... cause oil starving (no oil light flashing though...)
- the broken crankpin scuffed the pistons
- also very little pieces of the rods barrel bearings began to flaw... flowing in the oil conducts... choking some of them... and in particular that little hole in the crankcase above the cam bushings... seizing each bushing on his very own cam...
- damaging lifters
- damaging the oil pump etc.etc.

Last edited by Nibelungen; 2 Days Ago at 19:29..
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  #139  
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The safe choice in pre-2009 cylinders was this:

If ONLY going to 1200, you could bore out the 883 cylinder...

If going beyond 1200 (overbore to .020 or .030) then use 1200 cylinders...

It was said that HD used the same cylinder cores to make 883 or 1200 cylinders... Aaron (aswracing) seems to deny that claim, if for no other reason than the expense of lost material discarded from the larger boring required (and the size & casting numbers)... (I don't know who made the cylinders for HD or what choices they made in supplying them to HD - maybe this is where the claim came from... )

When I converted my 883 to 1200 (from wrecked bike) I needed new cylinders. I chose to use the Wiseco 1200 pistons & pins (for weight compatibility). Rather than buy and use 1200 cylinders, I chose to buy 883 cylinders & have them bored to exactly match the Wiseco pistions (specific tolerance match)...

I felt that the manufacturing tolerances used to create 10s of thousands of 1200 cylinders would be too loose (and variable) compared to having 883 cylinders bored to match the Wiseco pistons I actually supplied to the shop...

I'm pleased with the way the engine turned out (78Hp-81Tq)...

If I had to use HD products today, I'd buy the 1200 cylinders but have them bored .010 over to exactly match Wiseco .010 over pistons - Just to match the tolerance desired...

Of course, with the various 1250 or 1275 options available, they are no brainers compared to the choices we had in the past...

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  #140  
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Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
The safe choice in pre-2009 cylinders was this:

If ONLY going to 1200, you could bore out the 883 cylinder...

If going beyond 1200 (overbore to .020 or .030) then use 1200 cylinders...

It was said that HD used the same cylinder cores to make 883 or 1200 cylinders... Aaron (aswracing) seems to deny that claim, if for no other reason than the expense of lost material discarded from the larger boring required (and the size & casting numbers)... (I don't know who made the cylinders for HD or what choices they made in supplying them to HD - maybe this is where the claim came from... )

When I converted my 883 to 1200 (from wrecked bike) I needed new cylinders. I chose to use the Wiseco 1200 pistons & pins (for weight compatibility). Rather than buy and use 1200 cylinders, I chose to buy 883 cylinders & have them bored to exactly match the Wiseco pistions (specific tolerance match)...

I felt that the manufacturing tolerances used to create 10s of thousands of 1200 cylinders would be too loose (and variable) compared to having 883 cylinders bored to match the Wiseco pistons I actually supplied to the shop...

I'm pleased with the way the engine turned out (78Hp-81Tq)...

If I had to use HD products today, I'd buy the 1200 cylinders but have them bored .010 over to exactly match Wiseco .010 over pistons - Just to match the tolerance desired...

Of course, with the various 1250 or 1275 options available, they are no brainers compared to the choices we had in the past...

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well
to wrap it up...
all depends on what outside diameter have the liner of the model year considered 883 cylinders (after 2008) with a mixed spigot of alum with an inner iron sleeve...
most likely it varies over the years... or varies according to the manufacturers that HD hires... and it's not easy to know... at least from info on the net... to know that is quite impossible if you don't pull your juggs...

Last edited by Nibelungen; 2 Days Ago at 20:38..
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