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  #31  
Old 2nd April 2013
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Originally Posted by Ireeman View Post
98.8 but i am running on alcohol right now, with a 85* ambient temperature and damn near 7 feet above sea level....no breeze yet, hope that helps.
Verry funny!
However, I was asking the conditions for the temps posted by Counter Steer.
He advised stop and go on highway, but not the incline (if any) or ambient or if the motor was already heat saturated or just coming up to temp.
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  #32  
Old 2nd April 2013
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Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Verry funny!
However, I was asking the conditions for the temps posted by Counter Steer.
He advised stop and go on highway, but not the incline (if any) or ambient or if the motor was already heat saturated or just coming up to temp.
This was not my study. My own results are logged but not photo'd. I was looking for the original link but I have not found it yet. Ambient mentioned in the study was in the 90s. No incline mentioned. I was using his work to compare it to my own infrared reader results on an ironhead and a rigid evo, also a airhead and a twin cam. Evo results are very close to my own readings.

While I have an infrared reader, I do not have an infrared camera so I posted this photo as it provides a basic heat set that is more understandable than posting numbers from my EVOs heat log.
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  #33  
Old 2nd April 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counter Steer View Post
This was not my study. My own results are logged but not photo'd. I was looking for the original link but I have not found it yet. Ambient mentioned in the study was in the 90s. No incline mentioned. I was using his work to compare it to my own infrared reader results on an ironhead and a rigid evo, also a airhead and a twin cam. Evo results are very close to my own readings.

While I have an infrared reader, I do not have an infrared camera so I posted this photo as it provides a basic heat set that is more understandable than posting numbers from my EVOs heat log.
Interesting
With an ambient into the ninties, if the motor was already heat saturated, that showed a very reasonable CHT.
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  #34  
Old 2nd April 2013
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Originally Posted by pilot479 View Post
i dont beleive that harley actually lists a normal operating temp for the sportster....ive been looking for that for quite awhile.
FWIW they DO list it, at least in the 2004 and 2007 Rubbermount manuals - under Checking Oil Pressure (around page 3-14/3-15 depending on the year).

Quote:
Engine Oil should be at normal operating temperature (230°F/110°C) for an accurate reading.
Problem is they don't specify how/where to measure that temperature.

Not to mention they list the same spec for carbureted rubbermounts as EFI rubbermounts and we've noted here for a long time that cylinder head and oil bag temps are significantly different between the carb and EFI rubbermounts, which makes me wonder about the accuracy of the spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
For a long time (Sportster.org from 2003 to 2012), I have been preaching a max of 230 F for oil temperature. Most aircraft motors stipulate 220/225 as max. When my 1200S was factory jetted, I saw close to 230 F, sustained WOT up a 6% grade in CA. Under the same conditions, after it was rejetted, it dropped 20 degrees F.

I realize that I have switched from CHT to oil temp, but there is a correlation. It would be interesting to have feedback from riders who can read both: What is the Cylinder Head Temperature when the oil is at 200, 210, 220, 225, 230F?

Riding in the CA desert, AZ and NV, I pay a lot of attention to temperature. My ride last Saturday was NV-AZ-UT, but I was cold enough to not be concerned about the motor!
Looking at temp threads here over the years I get the impression that these bikes run anywhere from 180-240F, measured in the bag, varying with ambient conditions, engine tune, AND model.

IIRC the patterns suggest that generally stockish:

Solidmounts run about 190-210F
Carb rubbermounts run about 180-200F
EFI rubbermounts run about 210-240F

There are exceptions obviously, but it seems that the improved cooling strategy of the rubbermounts was designed in anticipation of hotter/leaner temps which would occur with the EFI bikes.

Now I don't have a Powervision or some other direct method of datalogging head temps from the sensor, but I have periodically checked temps on our bikes using a laser pyrometer.

Our 05 carb rubbermount 883L used to run oil bag temps noted above (around 180-200F) and head temps in the low to mid 200s, maybe 210-250F measured at the spark plug port.

In contrast our 07 EFI rubbermount 1200L tends to run oil bag temps of about 220-230F and head temps in the low to mid 300s, maybe 320-355F measured at the spark plug port.

But I have no idea what kind of spikes they might see.

I'd also suggest that IF head temps are in the 300s there's NO WAY the oil isn't seeing higher temps in the heads than it indicates when it gets back to the bag.
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  #35  
Old 2nd April 2013
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Bone
That is a lot of very good info.
My point, is that with proper A/F ratio, the oil temp should not exceed 220, 225, maybe 230 F for a short time...regardless of carb or EFI.
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  #36  
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Bone commented: "There are exceptions obviously, but it seems that the improved cooling strategy of the rubbermounts was designed in anticipation of hotter/leaner temps which would occur with the EFI bikes."

No doubt, as H-D likely expected more EFI bikes to remain stock fuel mixture, so the increased oil flow under the piston was expected as a counter-measure.
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  #37  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Bone
That is a lot of very good info.
My point, is that with proper A/F ratio, the oil temp should not exceed 220, 225, maybe 230 F for a short time...regardless of carb or EFI.
Abosolutely, there's no reason you can't reduce head and oil temps on an EFI motor with a tuner.

That said, Harley does significant desert testing on their stock bikes, and I have to believe that even though the EFI bikes tend to run pretty darn hot compared to carb bikes in years gone past, I don't believe there is any harm in it.

As a matter of fact, IF you ever ride in cold/wet weather there may be an advantage to running a little warm (getting rid of excess moisture).

Tangentially related story, on the newest air-cooled 8V 100+ rwhp 1200cc Moto-Guzzis (mostly Griso and Stelvio models I believe) there have been a number of engine failures (I believe tapped related) in Australia where one of the dealers is currently looking into the possibility that it is because they are OVER-COOLED in the rain. These bikes use dual oil pumps, one which pumps for lubrication and a second that pumps for cooling - as the exhaust valves use dedicated oil passages that have been added for cooling.

Anyway - I realize there's a point of diminishing returns and that heat can kill, but the point is, so can cold.
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  #38  
Old 8th April 2013
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Have experienced this before, ended up was because I lost one of two flange nuts to tie pip to rear engine.
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  #39  
Old 13th August 2020
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I was researching engine temperature since I installed a new instrument (read here if you are interested) that shows the cylinder head temperature and thought I would post it here in this thread for the next person.

Sportster 1200 2016

ambient temperature 30-31° C (86-88° F)

Cylinder head temperature 200-225° C (392-437° F)

I believe these are normal operating temperatures for these engines.

I plan on purchasing an oil temperature gauge next and will try to remember to return and update this post. Or maybe there should be an thread tracking these temperatures.

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