The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End Discuss Sportster Motorcycle Top End issues. Rockerboxes, Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Rings, Lift Rods, etc...

Active Threads
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 3,749
Views: 414,893
0 compression problems
Last Post: slcharger
Posted On: 2 Minutes Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 391
0 Finding a new doctor...
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 6 Minutes Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 77
0 Arbor press for crankshaft
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 10 Minutes Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 157
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 16 Minutes Ago
Replies: 42,785
Views: 6,681,385
0 Rubbermount shocks on a rigid mount?
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 17 Minutes Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 40
0 I think I may be a gas tank hoarder...
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 20 Minutes Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 346
0 KT - 2019 - Done Riding - Not Hardly
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 24 Minutes Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 2,691
0 forward controls vs. "normal" / trades?
Last Post: racemoto
Posted On: 26 Minutes Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 1
10 What's your Personal Tech
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 27 Minutes Ago
Replies: 34
Views: 845
0 ultima iggy,, static time vs dynamic time
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 29 Minutes Ago
Replies: 34
Views: 1,406
5 What's Your Temp Today
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 53 Minutes Ago
Replies: 28
Views: 1,921
0 Seized Oil Pump
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 333
0 Hello from Seattle
Last Post: racemoto
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 197
0 Stock Straight Rate Fork Spring Weight on Rubbermount 1200C
Last Post: 60Gunner
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 12
0 my build in my apartment
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 118
0 Rocker Lockers - Quiet Down Annoying Top End Ticking
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 61
Views: 14,513
0 what brand of spark plug do you use?
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 305
Views: 70,074
0 ****DK Custom Is Now Offering Jagg Oil Coolers****
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 4,337
0 ***DK Custom-Blacked-Out Highway Peg Mounting Kit - Hinged Clamp & Clevis***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 555
0 ***DK Custom Products Introduces the Trap Style Foot Pegs***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 2,330
0 Hello from San Clemente, California USA
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 78
0 Frankenstein trike kit on a sportster
Last Post: doc martin
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 24
0 Fuel Pump Problems
Last Post: hammer6315
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 255
Views: 141,111
0 Roads I'd like to ride.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,206
Views: 100,953
0 F/S: HD Solo Seat and Pillion '86-'03 $130 OBO
Last Post: John Harper
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 31
0 Lets see your off season builds
Last Post: cycowrencher
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,232
Views: 151,155
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 9,905
Views: 865,265
0 ***DK Custom-LIMITED TIME Sweetheart Deals-Save 10% On Select Products***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 240
More...
Members Birthdays
beertp (64), Jcolleyoh (64)
Tags
pushrods, s&s, top end rebuild

Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13th October 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default S&S pushrod adjustment

I’m fininshing my top end rebuild on my 96’ sportster 1200. While doing it, I was surprised to find out the previous owner had installed S&S adjustable pushrods. I think S&S valve springs too (because I have 3 valve springs instead of the stock 2). I need help figuring out how to adjust these correctly.

http://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/57...ds.html?page=2

I was following the link above, but when I had the front cylinder TDC on the compression stroke with exhaust tappet at lowest position, the exhaust pushrod had 0 up and down play for me to adjust to. I called a S&S technician, and he said it doesn’t matter what stroke you’re own or which pushrod you start with. As long as the tappet you’re working on is in the lowest position, you’re fine.

I scrapped the link and followed his directions. I did in fact get the proper up and down play, which I then adjusted the pushrod’s bottom ball end to just sit on the tappet. Then I increased pushrod compression to 24 Flats and tighten the locknut.

Can anyone please tell me if I did this correctly? I’m only doubting the technician cause it’s so different from the pushrod manual. And all the YouTube tutorials seem to only do the adjustment on ironheads. Please help before I damage my pistons
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 13th October 2018
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,782
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1550747
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

if you zeroed the lash and then added 24 flats for pre-load, you should be good to go. the pre-load will prevent the plunger and retainer from contacting. i run the rivera units and set them for .030, yep, closer than most people, they usually get squeamish below .050. the s&s literature tpi info should tell you the clearance per turn, i have diff tpi.
(to clarify> .030 is at the lifter, rocker ratio not factored but stem clearance would be around the .050 mark) just enough to quieten the valve train, it will run up the 7.5 limiter more solid like.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13th October 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Great. That's reassuring. So does it really matter if the pushrods are adjusted while on the compression stroke? Everything I've been reading talks about having cylinder at TDC on compression stroke, but I wasn't getting any good results that way. I'm afraid of valve to piston contact if I don't do it on TDC compression stroke.

I adjusted all of the pushrods the way I explained earlier last night. I'm gonna head back to the garage today and double check each pushrod after waiting for it to be bled and check. Should I increase tension if theres free play? or just leave it at the standard 24 flats?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13th October 2018
conv90's Avatar
conv90 conv90 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 964
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year: 1990
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1975
Reputation: 153288
conv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant future
Default

TDC compression stroke has the advantage to let you adjust both intake and exhaust pushrods at that cylinder.
Say you adjusted the front, wait 20- 30 min, then turn the engine to have TDC compression at rear cylinder, so you can adjust both exhaust and intake rear pushrods.
Wait another 20-30 min then you can start the motor.

In theory you can adjust the pushrod you want IF you are SURE that the relative valve is fully closed (lifter at the base circle of the respective cam).
BUT it's difficult to say when a lifter is at the base circle of the cam with the cam cover on. In this case you should rely on pushrods movement.
__________________
1990 Sportster Axtell 90 ci, CP Carrillo 3.875 30° deg pistons,STD Heads, 615V2 RedShift cams, HSR48,
Carrillo 9.638 rods
Hammer Billet Sledge air filter
Hammer Billet Manifold.
160/60ZR17 rear on Akront 4.25" Alu rim
100/90-19 front on Akront 2.50" new Alu rim
YSS 13.75 rear shocks
1975 XLH almost stock
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13th October 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I didn't have any freeplay with pushrods zeroed out, and with the front cylinder at TDC compression stroke. Perhaps I'm doing it all wrong.

I stuffed the sparkplug hole with a rag and turned the engine. When the rag popped out, I slowly turned the engine until TDC. That is when I don't have any freeplay on the front cylinder. Am I crazy or just doing it wrong?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13th October 2018
conv90's Avatar
conv90 conv90 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 964
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year: 1990
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1975
Reputation: 153288
conv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
I didn't have any freeplay with pushrods zeroed out, and with the front cylinder at TDC compression stroke. Perhaps I'm doing it all wrong.

I stuffed the sparkplug hole with a rag and turned the engine. When the rag popped out, I slowly turned the engine until TDC. That is when I don't have any freeplay on the front cylinder. Am I crazy or just doing it wrong?
What you mean with:
" I didn't have any freeplay with pushrods zeroed out, and with the front cylinder at TDC compression stroke"?

Put the front cylinder at tdc on Compression stroke.
http://www.hammerperf.com/ttspotcheckcamtiming.shtml

then make the pushrod short as much you can. Then extend the pushrod with the adjuster up to the point you have no play between the pushrod and the tappet. (this is ZERO lash). There is a moment where you can still do some Up-down movement, then extending just a litte more you have 0 lash.
Now you can extend the pushrods the number of flats S&S suggest.

When you have finished you will not be able to turn the pushrod with your fingers. Allow 10 to 20 to 30 mins that the tapped bleed oil. At that point you will be able to turn the pushrod with fingers with slight drag.
GO to next pushrod.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13th October 2018
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 9,931
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 2175181
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustert View Post
if you zeroed the lash and then added 24 flats for pre-load, you should be good to go. the pre-load will prevent the plunger and retainer from contacting. i run the rivera units and set them for .030, yep, closer than most people, they usually get squeamish below .050. the s&s literature tpi info should tell you the clearance per turn, i have diff tpi.
(to clarify> .030 is at the lifter, rocker ratio not factored but stem clearance would be around the .050 mark) just enough to quieten the valve train, it will run up the 7.5 limiter more solid like.
You need the lifters preloaded enough to compensate for top end growth as the motor gets hot. That's really why .050" is considered the minimum.
__________________
Click Here to Contact Me

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13th October 2018
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,782
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1550747
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

very true. some even like to split the diff of the plunger stroke. so far no issues with the .030 down from the retainer, want it to run like a solid.
you can set them both ways, i just start at the back and work forward. if #1 intake is up, i know #2 intake is down, etc.
i forgot to mention i do run s&s travel limiters so i do not have full stroke to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14th October 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 51
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Alright. So I rechecked my work. I made sure the front cylinder was at TDC on the compression stroke. Adjusted pushrods, then moved on to the rear cylinder at TDC-Compressiom. I followed Conv90 guideance and made exhaust pushrod the shortest length then extended it to pre-load and then extended it 24 flats. I waited 30mins for each pushrod to bleed out. Then did the intake.

The odd thing I noticed was they were just as finger loose as I started before rechecking my work. Either I had adjusted them correctly last night or they were already bleed from last night. Either way, I feel more confident that they’re adjusted correctly.


#1 intake is up, while #2 intake is down. #1 exhaust up, while #2 exhaust is down.

If there’s anything else I should check, or a better way to ensure the adjustment is dead on. Please let me know
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #10  
Old 14th October 2018
conv90's Avatar
conv90 conv90 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 964
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year: 1990
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1975
Reputation: 153288
conv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
Alright. So I rechecked my work. I made sure the front cylinder was at TDC on the compression stroke. Adjusted pushrods, then moved on to the rear cylinder at TDC-Compressiom. I followed Conv90 guideance and made exhaust pushrod the shortest length then extended it to pre-load and then extended it 24 flats. I waited 30mins for each pushrod to bleed out. Then did the intake.

change "pre-load" to "0 lash" THEN extends 24 flats.

The odd thing I noticed was they were just as finger loose as I started before rechecking my work. Either I had adjusted them correctly last night or they were already bleed from last night. Either way, I feel more confident that they’re adjusted correctly.

Yes, probably already bleed. Usually when tappets are with oil on it it needs from 10 min to 30 bleed ..depending of the bleed rate of the tappet. Presumably you started to recheck your work the day later ..so they were bleed, so your finger loose sensation

#1 intake is up, while #2 intake is down. #1 exhaust up, while #2 exhaust is down.

If there’s anything else I should check, or a better way to ensure the adjustment is dead on. Please let me know
If you have not started the bike you can put the front at TDC compression and you can see if pushrods can be turned by fingers. Then you can check the rear with the same method (Rear at TDC compression). If you already started the bike you should wait the aforementioned 10 to 30 min.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC