The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End Discuss Sportster Motorcycle Top End issues. Rockerboxes, Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Rings, Lift Rods, etc...

Active Threads
0 First Harley(has issues) - 95 sportster 1200
Last Post: khav
Posted On: 5 Minutes Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 256
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: trainman
Posted On: 18 Minutes Ago
Replies: 9,272
Views: 1,416,050
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Knuckles
Posted On: 19 Minutes Ago
Replies: 5,451
Views: 623,803
0 Crusty's Travels
Last Post: BKB
Posted On: 20 Minutes Ago
Replies: 1,644
Views: 171,315
0 A Day in the Life...
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 21 Minutes Ago
Replies: 587
Views: 56,153
0 Topend problem
Last Post: dodgetrucken
Posted On: 24 Minutes Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 432
0 Magnaflow F-Bomb on a Rigid?
Last Post: BKB
Posted On: 30 Minutes Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 96
0 Do you have the service manual?
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 38 Minutes Ago
Replies: 708
Views: 177,728
0 "S" model specific Q&A
Last Post: ftwflh
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 1,802
Views: 343,062
0 2004 Sportster Maintenance log
Last Post: clif02
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 74
Views: 50,469
0 Happy Birthday Hogwylde!!!!
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 31
5 Favourite grips?
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 50
Views: 8,932
0 S&S pushrod adjustment
Last Post: aswracing
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 472
5 Eye Protection When Riding?
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 261
Views: 60,640
0 Need some help chasing a tick
Last Post: ChinCactus
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 412
0 What are your thoughts on this 2004 rubbermount Sporty?
Last Post: hammer6315
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 62
Views: 2,612
0 ....1
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 4,665
Views: 226,429
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,723
Views: 243,931
0 New Freewheeler On The Way
Last Post: priell3
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 398
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 41,817
Views: 6,447,039
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,368
Views: 670,969
0 Roads I'd like to ride.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 562
Views: 30,507
0 Small nail in tire?? plug or replace
Last Post: jammantoo
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 134
Views: 19,560
0 1200s mid throttle stumble
Last Post: sportsterdoc
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 96
0 I love my Mikuni VM38-9 because ...
Last Post: Serious Blac
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 101
Views: 22,886
0 My take on the world ~ Photo by Trace
Last Post: moparnut72
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 865
Views: 95,996
0 Sportster tachometer wiring question
Last Post: sleighcrane
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 216
0 Why do sportsters look small?
Last Post: kopbilly1
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 102
Views: 7,268
0 Rocker Lockers - Quiet Down Annoying Top End Ticking
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 48
Views: 6,586
0 What gas mileage do you get for touring?
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 134
Views: 45,530
More...
Members Birthdays
doughboy (65), tinman (63), mofo (56), JAFI (55), Topgun (53), Hogwylde (53), Pay Toilet (52), grwhite038 (50), JWG883 (49), sorryifitburns (45), Leibniz (43), higgins14 (41)
Tags
pushrods, s&s, top end rebuild

Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 3 Days Ago
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Pre-load as in, I adjusted the pushrod to where the bottom ball end just touches the tappet and there is no up or down play.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2 Days Ago
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 9,878
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 1868178
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
Pre-load as in, I adjusted the pushrod to where the bottom ball end just touches the tappet and there is no up or down play.
That would be zero pre-load. As you lengthen the pushrod from there, you start preloading it.
__________________
Click Here to Contact Me

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2 Days Ago
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I started my bike and it runs really well. The valves/tappets are kinda loud. A guy at my garage said I should wait a little and let carbon build up on my valves before adjusting them (I reseated the valves when I did the rebuild).

I pre-loaded my pushrods by 24 flats. Should I readjust to 22 flats or something? Is adjusting pushrods a trial and error thing? Adjust til they're quieter?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2 Days Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,462
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1355214
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

carbon?!?
naw
if you bled the lifters, it will take time to refill. it will take around 5 miles of riding for them to fully get functional, that is what mind did with the limiters.
that is a plus for the limiters, almost full valve opening from startup.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2 Days Ago
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustert View Post
carbon?!?
naw
if you bled the lifters, it will take time to refill. it will take around 5 miles of riding for them to fully get functional, that is what mind did with the limiters.
that is a plus for the limiters, almost full valve opening from startup.
Already rode 5miles or so last night. Planning on riding more to continue the piston ring break in time.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2 Days Ago
conv90's Avatar
conv90 conv90 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 954
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year: 1990
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Sportster
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1975
Reputation: 153288
conv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant futureconv90 has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
I started my bike and it runs really well. The valves/tappets are kinda loud. A guy at my garage said I should wait a little and let carbon build up on my valves before adjusting them (I reseated the valves when I did the rebuild).

I pre-loaded my pushrods by 24 flats. Should I readjust to 22 flats or something? Is adjusting pushrods a trial and error thing? Adjust til they're quieter?
I think 26 flats or 22 it's the same. It's not a trial end error thing.
S&S (and many others pushrods/lifters brands) suggest the number of flats to place the preload at the mid of the allowed travel on lifter. This is due to number of threads per inches on the adjuster of the rod.

Theoretically you can adjust between 1 flats to up to 47. (i'm doing limit examples)
But
If you preload to the limit (example 47) you will be near solid.
What happens if you are at very high rpm and the valve floats or loose the contact with the rocker tip? The oil will fill the slack and you end with a valve held open for more time and you risk a valve to valve contact or a valve to piston contact.

And if you preload only (example 1 flat)?
You risk nothing but in the morning or at cold start one or two lifer can collaps (bleed oil on the big travel left) so the valve start to open later adding a big amount of cranking compression i.e. = difficult start.

In a limited travel configuration you are near solid BUT the travel left is minimal so valve contacts is less probable. And (like bustert said) it's easy to start in the morning because the collapsing lifter is impossible.
__________________
1990 Sportster Axtell 90 ci, CP Carrillo 3.875 30° deg pistons,STD Heads, 615V2 RedShift cams, HSR48,
Carrillo 9.638 rods
Hammer Billet Sledge air filter
Hammer Billet Manifold.
160/60ZR17 rear on Akront 4.25" Alu rim
100/90-19 front on Akront 2.50" new Alu rim
YSS 13.75 rear shocks
1975 XLH almost stock
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 1 Day Ago
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 9,878
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 1868178
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
I started my bike and it runs really well. The valves/tappets are kinda loud. A guy at my garage said I should wait a little and let carbon build up on my valves before adjusting them
Carbon doesn't build up on the contact area between the valve and the seat. I wouldn't listen to him.

The number one mistake we see people make when adjusting pushrods - in fact number one through ten - is they don't get the cams on the base circle. All too often this is because they don't find compression TDC before making the adjustment.

All too often, people only hear "TDC" and think all TDC's are the same. Well they're not. A four stroke motor requires two full revolutions of the crank to go through all four strokes. That means it passes through TDC twice. At one of those TDC's, compression TDC, both valves are closed. That's the one you want. At overlap TDC, both valves are very slightly open. So slightly in fact that it's very difficult to tell by just looking. To distinguish compression TDC from overlap TDC reliably, you need to watch the motion of the valvetrain as you turn the motor over. You can't just do it statically.

If you adjust at overlap TDC, everything is going to be too loose, it's going to make a racket, and it can tear things up. Years ago, we had a customer destroy two valves this way. He got mad at us and insisted the valves were defective.They weren't. When HAMMER Dan got him on the phone, we learned that he had no idea how to tell compression TDC from overlap TDC.

Anyway, I'll stop ranting. I have no idea if that's the case here or not. I'm just saying it's a common mistake. Be SURE the motor was positioned right when the adjustment was made.

Truth be told, we dislike adjustable pushrods anyway, for a variety of reasons. We look at them as a solution looking for problem. In the end, all they do is cost you more and make the valvetrain heavier and less reliable and the collapsible covers just create more opportunities for leaks. Give me a strong chrome moly non-adjustable pushrod inside the stock pushrod covers any day of the week. Simple, elegant, strong, light, and reliable. And we spin our stuff 8000rpm on stock lifters with non adjustable pushrods. All this travel limited BS is just another way to waste your money.



Stock lifters, no limiters. Non-adjustable pushrods. 184lbs of seat pressure. 8000rpm. Where's the problem?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 1 Day Ago
RussW RussW is offline
Know It All
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 154
Sportster/Buell Model: Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Other Motorcycle Model: Panhead
Other Motorcycle Year: 1961
Reputation: 84791
RussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud ofRussW has much to be proud of
Default

If you are running stock lifters, you will have about 0.200 travel from top to bottom of the lifter. The S&S pushrods are 32 threads per inch, which results in 0.0052 movement per flat. Adjusting to S&S specs at 24 flats, you are 0.125 (24 x 0.0052) depth into the lifter, which is a little more than half of the 0.200 available. A safe adjustment to use. I run a Woods 9B cam, which is usually suggested to be set deeper into the lifter , about 0.140 -0.150. I set at 28 flats ( 28 x 0.0052 = 0.1456) and it is quieter (didn't say "quiet") So you have some room to play, just understand what moving one more flat means, and why you may not need to.
__________________
2002 Hugger, S&S 1200 conversion, Woods cam,SE ignition/coil, D&D Fat Cat
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #19  
Old 15 Hours Ago
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 38
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussW View Post
A safe adjustment to use. I run a Woods 9B cam, which is usually suggested to be set deeper into the lifter , about 0.140 -0.150. I set at 28 flats ( 28 x 0.0052 = 0.1456) and it is quieter (didn't say "quiet") So you have some room to play, just understand what moving one more flat means, and why you may not need to.
I adjusted from 24flats to now 26flats, and it is quieter. Might even try 27 flats.

I did a simple heat cycle to break in my new rings. (I know, I know. theres a huge debate on the topic). During the process, my bike sounded great! and the tappets never changed sound. My bike ran for probably a total of about 20mins before I was forced to turn around due to a loud tappet sound. I have to check for sure tomorrow, but I am pretty sure the locknut vibrated loose as well as the pushrod and I have a lot of slack again (judging from just the sound).

Perhaps I was too gentle on locking the locknut. But does anyone know the secret or how tight to tighten the locknut so it STAYS LOCKED. Definitely do not want to be riding along and have this happen again.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2 Hours Ago
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 9,878
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 1868178
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_worth View Post
Perhaps I was too gentle on locking the locknut. But does anyone know the secret or how tight to tighten the locknut so it STAYS LOCKED. Definitely do not want to be riding along and have this happen again.
Locknuts loosening up is one of my pet peeves about adjustable pushrods. The whole setup, in general, is a less reliable arrangement than stock, and I don't see the whole point in it. But I'll spare you any more of the rant.

What I always found was that the nut was much more likely to come loose the first time I ever tightened it, i.e. when it was brand new. The second time I tightened it, and subsequent times, they seem to stay tight.

The risk however is that sometimes the nuts crack while tightening them up. They're made really thin for clearance reasons. I've never actually had one crack while in operation, only while tightening. But then it becomes a big PITA to take it back apart and replace it. It seems like the more tightening cycles you've put on the lock nut, the more it fatigues, and the more likely you are to crack it during tightening. So keep that in mind.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC