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Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

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  #81  
Old 21st September 2020
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A guy told me once you cannot use an EVO ignition on an Ironhead because the rod angles are different.

Fact is All Electronic Ignitions have very similar pre-programed curves, and none of them are perfect for an Ironhead.

But any electronic ignition that has a rev limiter, current limiting, and dwell control works better than points and a wobbly ass centrifugal advance.

If you are so concerned about spark timing you really should add the second spark plug an Ironhead needs to eliminate the tuning nightmare and get the efficiency of a modern motor.

Remember the MoCo did not add the second plug, because it would have made the Ironhead more faster/better than the flagship model, the FL.
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  #82  
Old 21st September 2020
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You keep preaching about dual plugs, but I'm still waiting for real proof that adding a second plug does more than increase sales for coil makers? I want to see dyno sheets where the same motor is tested with results showing real power increases! Otherwise it's just another opinion not based on fact! Otherwise known as bullshit?

As a machinist I have dual plugged heads and its a pain in the ass to do! The head castings can vary in thickness so you never know if there is enough metal to have a full thread on the plug or the plug could hit the piston top depending on what pistons you have and the depth of the plug in the casting? It's a real chore to weld up the hole between a bunch of fins in iron, if the hole is too short You have to have a way to hold the head in the mill at an angle to do it, and milling through the fins is problematic too, requires a special multiflute endmill to do it with any speed. In other words this is not a ten minute modification? I,'d like to hear how other guys do it?

This has nothing to do with iron heads? A couple of years ago I helped a guy who is very competitive racing a 120" shovelhead in AMDRA racing. He has been racing for about ten years. Always wanting to increase performance and hearing all the THEORIES about dual plugging heads he tried it and after a year of racing and trying a bunch of different tuneups, he told me it didn't really add any gains to his speed at the track?

Harley built a few models of evo 1200 Sportsters with dual plugs back around 2000! How come if its so great they didn't comtinue?
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  #83  
Old 21st September 2020
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Originally Posted by Nitro57xl View Post
Why all this worry about advance curves? Almost all the curves are done at 2000 rpm. How much riding do you do below 2000? Unless you are lugging it at really :low speeds in high gear the timing is at full advance! You guys are suffering from OCD?

The concern is these are designed for Ultima engines. The full advance may well be 2000 RPM but if the full advance is 28 degrees your poor old Ironhead will be making 12 HP.
Yes, you can "adjust" the system by ignoring the Ultima initial setting and moving the backing plate 12 degrees.
But that again is not optimal.
These "curves" also appear to be straight lines anyway.

I'm looking for an optimal system to go onto a performance engine. So a fully programmable ignition is what's really required.

Just as an aside, most engines benefit from dropping the advance a few degrees in the upper rev range. If you are looking for an engine that can perform up to it's full potential you need to be able to tailor the curve.

Only OCD on performance engines. My sidecar runs a magneto and I wish I could tailor the spark on that as well.
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Old 21st September 2020
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The only way your going to get that is to go the full electronic engine control route with evil? And all the sensors that go with it?
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Old 21st September 2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
The concern is these are designed for Ultima engines. The full advance may well be 2000 RPM but if the full advance is 28 degrees your poor old Ironhead will be making 12 HP.
Yes, you can "adjust" the system by ignoring the Ultima initial setting and moving the backing plate 12 degrees.
But that again is not optimal.
These "curves" also appear to be straight lines anyway.

I'm looking for an optimal system to go onto a performance engine. So a fully programmable ignition is what's really required.
This Ultima is fully programmable. You have ten points you can set to whatever RPM you want and set the advance for each of those points.You can set single or dual fire, set max RPM to whatever value you like.
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  #86  
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Originally Posted by Nitro57xl View Post
The only way your going to get that is to go the full electronic engine control route with evil? And all the sensors that go with it?
I used a Micro-Tech on my Ducati and it did everything I needed.

And the Ultima will do the job. I have already told Clayton it's probably the one to buy.

he won't be racing it (I don't think) so a good general curve will do the trick. When he sticks it on the dyno to do the carbs we will have a pretty good idea.
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