The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Frame Mount EVO Sportster Talk (1986-2003 models)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Active Threads
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 13 Minutes Ago
Replies: 29,294
Views: 1,709,918
3 Wtb, Wts, Wtt, Wtg (Ironhead)
Last Post: Monte03
Posted On: 37 Minutes Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 296,129
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 47 Minutes Ago
Replies: 37,086
Views: 4,595,330
0 $10 Voltage Regulator Review
Last Post: ZTatZAU
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 23
Views: 1,541
0 We need a new cuckoo clock
Last Post: Bikeaholic
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 188
0 video & pics
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 1,423
Views: 144,775
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 9,626
Views: 2,322,558
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 54,466
Views: 9,263,254
0 Top end tapping products
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 480
0 Cut out Issues XL1200 2001
Last Post: Fivecats
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 43
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,257
Views: 1,159,552
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 13,147
Views: 3,312,150
0 WTF Happened
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,419
Views: 285,143
0 Ignition timing vs vacuum recommendations.
Last Post: Jfart
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 22
Views: 385
0 1980 kick start
Last Post: DangerDanger
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 23
Views: 13,396
0 "The Blues" thread!
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,153
Views: 178,604
0 primary chain adjustment
Last Post: RandallM
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 49
Views: 2,459
0 Riding like the king
Last Post: andy2175m4
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 148
0 using q quart of oil every 200 miles
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 213
0 How many miles are on your sporty?
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,254
Views: 382,878
0 Forward controls and highway pegs...
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 89
0 Did something silly maybe?
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 963
0 Sportster differences
Last Post: BruceClarke9
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 107
0 Food porn
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 18 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,793
Views: 710,883
0 Mid or forward controls.
Last Post: JunkyardDog
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 196
Views: 57,982
0 Snippets
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 686
Views: 100,530
0 S1 Buell chop
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 7,278
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: 01rk
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,449
Views: 936,737
0 1981 XLH Getting Recranked
Last Post: joe s
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 110
Views: 5,532
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,001
Views: 1,454,703
More...
Members Birthdays
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 19th January 2022
argos587 argos587 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 63
Sportster/Buell Model: XL 1200 (883 conversion)
Sportster/Buell Year: 1994
Reputation: 10154
argos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Agreed, staying with N4. They will add more but not too much. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19th January 2022
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 10,393
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 3790653
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
The description given for the stock ratio rockers strongly suggests that stock length pushrods are OK for stock lift.
Assuming stock base circle, but increased lift, the pushrods should be shorter by 50% of the added lift.
If the stock lift is .400" (Y/N?), going up to .490" indicates .045" shorter. Is this significant? Probably not.
This is mistaken. These aren't automotive valve trains with a nut to raise or lower the rocker arm. The rocker stays in a fixed location. Correcting the geometry is done with stem protrusion adjustments, not pushrod length.

But in the HD world, the distance between the lifter and the rocker is not adjustable, so rocker geometry is not adjusted with pushrod length. If all you do is add more lobe lift at the same base circle, and do nothing to change stem protrusion or any of the other things that affect the pushrod length you need, then you don't want or need any change to your pushrod length. The lifter will be preloaded the same amount as it was with the lower lift cams. The vast majority of cam swaps on these motors are done this way. It's generally only when head work is involved that geometry gets corrected. Although some guys do it with lash caps.

Here's a drawing I made years ago, that describes the various things that affect the pushrod length you need:

__________________
Click Here to Contact Me

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19th January 2022
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 10,393
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 3790653
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Relevant to the discussion on W's vs. N4's:



Same bike, same motor/exhaust/air cleaner, same dyno, tested the same day by the same person (me). The only changes were the cams and the EFI was mapped in for each. CR was 10:1, which is the high end of the range for the W's and the low end of the range for the N4's. So in that respect, this test favors the W's.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19th January 2022
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 10,393
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 3790653
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
How would you know what length to use?
This is the easiest way:

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19th January 2022
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,626
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 8995933
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
So in that respect, this test favors the W's.
Thanks for posting that.
I've read something along those lines before but didn't save it to memory.
__________________
Diagnosis begins before teardown, during and after rebuild.

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.

Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia
for additional technical information & advice
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 19th January 2022
argos587 argos587 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 63
Sportster/Buell Model: XL 1200 (883 conversion)
Sportster/Buell Year: 1994
Reputation: 10154
argos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of lightargos587 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

The other concern with push rods relate to valve springs.
Stronger springs may need thicker/stronger push rods. Doubt the springs I'll be using will need stronger rods.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20th January 2022
aswracing's Avatar
aswracing aswracing is offline
A Million Facts & Figures
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Famous Potatoes
Posts: 10,393
Sportster/Buell Model: XL883
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Sportster/Buell Model #2: Buell Cyclone
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1999
Reputation: 3790653
aswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond reputeaswracing has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by argos587 View Post
The other concern with push rods relate to valve springs.
Stronger springs may need thicker/stronger push rods. Doubt the springs I'll be using will need stronger rods.
This is exactly correct. The stock pushrods are more than adequate for the stock springs.

So if you're not changing any of the things that necessitate a length change (see the drawing), and you're using the stock springs, there's generally no need to change the pushrods at all. Believe me, I get that question all the time.

A fixed length pushrod is a far superior solution to an adjustable whenever you're using hydraulic lifters, in my opinion. Stronger for a given weight and a lot less to go wrong. It's only when using a solid or travel-limited lifter, that requires a precise pushrod length, when an adjustable makes sense.

A hydraulic lifter is self-adjusting. To the extent the pushrod is a little too long, the lifter shortens itself, and to the extent the pushrod is a little too short, the lifter lengthens itself. Amazing technology that came out in the 1930's. Works really well. All you need is a pushrod length that preloads the lifter in it's self-adjusting range.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20th January 2022
kitabel kitabel is offline
Senior Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 842
Sportster/Buell Model: 883 Evo
Sportster/Buell Year: 1989
Reputation: 169824
kitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant futurekitabel has a brilliant future
Default

Missing from your remark: any sign that the original hydraulic tappet is used.
Oops.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 20th January 2022
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 2,941
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3630405
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
Missing from your remark: any sign that the original hydraulic tappet is used.
Oops.
You hadn't already dug yourself a deep enough hole?
__________________
2017 XL1200C in SE Wisconsin, USA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC