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  #11  
Old 11th January 2021
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Ok. So I'm guessing you are still using the old style pawl carrier.

I won't use them. I use the later 72 (?) on style.

The indent spring is intended to force the cam plate into the correct position. Yours might be weak/wrong.

You will also need to check for binding of the lever shaft. This should have no stiction, be free to revolve.

I have to wonder why you seem to have to much distance with the counter shaft. Has the C/S boss area been machined ? Is there indication on the trap door that the drive gear has been wearing against the trap door ?

If I had it here I would try another C/S. No guarantee that it's been machined correctly.

Also check the width of the spacer between the drive gear and 2nd C/S. Mine are all spot on but you do need to check in this case.
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  #12  
Old 11th January 2021
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I used the tall rollers in my 55 KH and it hung up going into 2nd gear from shifting either up or down.It loosened up after about a week.I pulled the trans out for a look and found the roller in 3 pieces in the bottom of the case.The roller was hitting something in the pawl assembly where it passes through the cam plate.Pulling the trans is not that big of a deal if you leave the chain and sprocket on,everything comes out but the mainshaft......mike....
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  #13  
Old 11th January 2021
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I might just add a not of caution here if I may.

While these boxes (and most others) are simple enough things, if you get something wrong it can be catastrophic.

And I'm not just talking about broken gears or ruined shafts.

When a gearbox "breaks" at high speed it can lock the rear wheel solid for you. Not trying to overly worry you but I have seen the result of this on a bike and rider at Turn 1 Phillip Island. Stepping off a bike at speed is something be avoided if you can.

Just like brakes these are simple mechanical things. But make a simple mistake and you could just find out how good your Doctor really is.
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  #14  
Old 11th January 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead1944 View Post
I used the tall rollers in my 55 KH and it hung up going into 2nd gear from shifting either up or down.It loosened up after about a week.I pulled the trans out for a look and found the roller in 3 pieces in the bottom of the case.The roller was hitting something in the pawl assembly where it passes through the cam plate.Pulling the trans is not that big of a deal if you leave the chain and sprocket on,everything comes out but the mainshaft......mike....
are you sure the shovelhead top hats were trimmed to the proper length? they're too long for your k or xl trans.
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  #15  
Old 12th January 2021
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Quote:
I also need to readjust the clutch one more time.
This might be a clue.

If your clutch is dragging - the gearbox will have problems. Clutch must really free completely to make the knife through butter shifts.
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  #16  
Old 12th January 2021
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Yeah, the clutch adjustment is what I'm thinking is the main issue.

I think some of y'all are stuck on this shift roller length. The ones I took out (because they were worn, and because 10 of the new ones only cost $8) were the same length as the new ones - as I said, one was even longer by a couple thou. The hats stick up about .030 above the shift cam, but come nowhere near anything else on the shift mechanism, even when I cycle the transmission through its gears by hand. This is a '77 bike with '77 parts in the transmission - meaning it's the newer style pawl carrier. Help me understand what these hats could possibly touch under operation - maybe I'm just missing the obvious.

FH, you didn't weigh in on the idea of two shims on the CSLow (outboard) gear to get closer to the .004-.009" endplay. When I tested and measured the clearances on the gears, I pushed the CSLow gear (and therefore the CS) against the stops on the trapdoor, as it should be once fully reinstalled, so the endplay I'm trying to get rid of is on the right side of the CS (outboard side of the CSLow gear)...
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  #17  
Old 12th January 2021
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77 has a wet clutch.

It can be hard to stop them from dragging. Uh, sorry, probably not hard, probably impossible. Anyway, you have to do your best with it. Adjustment is very important.

Endplay is on both ends of the shaft. Think about how you measured it. You moved the shaft back and forth between the cases and the trap door. That means there is space between the trap door one way and a space between the case the other way.

The endplay allows all of the gears to move apart.

The drive gear is sometimes an interference fit on the shaft. Sometimes they fall on and off. The space between the drive gear and 2nd is fixed by the spacer between the gears.
But when the drive gear can move the maximum width will vary.

With only 4-9 thou of endplay first gear can move away from 3rd by that amount. But with 20 thou endplay you have more than doubled it.

Also, did you read the bit in the FSM about "engagement ? It's important that the dogs engage by a minumum amount when the are changed.

What we're trying to do here is juggle the different gaps so that:

the clutch faces don't hit when they are not engaged. And that the dogs go in far enough to maintain drive and not "kick back out".

We can only manage that if the endplay is kept within specs.

Otherwise we could just say "just make sure you have free play on the shafts.

If the end play on the C/S is 20 tho your really looking for 15 thou. I often have to run two shims on the inside of 3rd gear to get there. But again, you have to be in spec with the clutch faces and dog engagement.
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  #18  
Old 12th January 2021
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  #19  
Old 16th January 2021
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shovehead top hat length compared to XL http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...1734747&page=6 the advantage to these is after trimming them to xl length the taper at the end is eliminated.
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