The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > EFI Sportster Motorcycle Talk (2007 and up)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

EFI Sportster Motorcycle Talk (2007 and up) For 2007 and above Sportsters

Active Threads
0 ECM Relocation Options Thread
Last Post: PetesPonies
Posted On: 53 Minutes Ago
Replies: 142
Views: 197,402
0 95 1200 Sportster >>> roadworthy
Last Post: 95sporty1200
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 659
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 2,878
Views: 282,667
0 Crusty's Travels
Last Post: Yakcm2
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,775
Views: 192,882
0 Really Hard to start XL1200 C
Last Post: Davo_137
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 423
0 which cylinder hone
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 21
Views: 514
0 Who's still riding???
Last Post: SHAKY DAVE
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 127
Views: 8,874
0 What are you drinking tonight?
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,930
Views: 115,612
0 2019 East Coast Meet and Greet
Last Post: pdavis5160
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 42
Views: 729
0 1959 competition exhaust
Last Post: murph1068
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 93
5 Methods to quiet the old Sporty ?
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 305
5 What color (s) were offered on a '65 CH ?
Last Post: DirtyHarry68
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 171
0 77 kicker engagement issues
Last Post: NHPS
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 491
0 Help with my clutch please
Last Post: DirtyHarry68
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 215
Views: 13,396
14 Iconic Parts that say it's a Harley!
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 773
0 A Day in the Life...
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 601
Views: 59,033
0 remap. Y/N?
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 21
Views: 6,580
0 SERIOUS 1275 engine issues!! PLEASE HELP!!
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 33
Views: 893
0 Front MC advise
Last Post: Randy_rots
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 332
0 Slowly finding Bits and Pieces ....
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 143
14 Firearms you wish you owned.
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 543
Views: 94,612
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 42,240
Views: 6,545,351
0 starter block off plate
Last Post: IronMick
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 22
Views: 582
0 ***DK Custom-Billet Handlebar Top Clamp w/ Indicator Lights Receptacle***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 67
0 ***DK Custom-Finned Handlebar Clamps For Sportsters, Dynas, & Others***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 75
0 Sale or Trade 2018 Sportster Mag wheels
Last Post: Whylee
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 404
0 ***DK Custom-Energy One High Performance Clutch Kits-Smoke The Competition***
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 77
0 Ohlins
Last Post: Bluto
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 76
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Jesus Jon
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,594
Views: 657,950
0 Those little ways to personalize your bike...
Last Post: Jesus Jon
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 720
More...
Members Birthdays
jenks60 (63), Hammer of God (57), billas 100th (54), sam19 (53), ivory hunter (50), cumnz (49), TJ Willy (45), SINdicated (39), XRavenX (36)
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 3rd September 2007
Moved On / My Own Choice Moved On / My Own Choice is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,120
Moved On / My Own Choice has disabled reputation
Default TROUBLESHOOTING an EFI Sporty

3 hours on the side of the NJ Tpke this weekend reminded me of some things.

Some people are going to use a cell phone when it won't start. That's cool, no worries. But many of us like to tinker, and TRY to prepare for trouble. Honestly, when I travel (more than a day trip) I now always carry a little pocket DVOM and a couple of extra basic tools so I can fix stuff if need be.

Funny thing is, in the past 2 years or so, the two times I've been on the side of the road with an EFI bike it was for components that ARE ALSO ON NON-EFI bikes and the roadside fixes were EASY once I figured it out.

The problem is we (and that includes me) too often jump to conclusions.

Always remember, and never forget, the BASICS when troubleshooting.


1. Be logical - don't shot gun it. Check for Compression, Spark and Fuel and don't leave ANY of those steps to ASSumptions, cause ASSumptions can be wrong.

For instance, this weeked we all ASSumed it was spark only when we found a lack of spark. But HAD we bothered to check for fuel (you can literally feel the fuel injectors while cranking to see if they are actuating, or you can pull a spark plug and smell for it when cranking or right after cranking) then we would have narrowed it down to 2 components RIGHT AWAY. Instead, we shotgunned it and it took 3 hours instead of maybe 10 minutes.

2. Check the SIMPLE things first. We were smart and replaced the crankshaft position sensor right away, that was an easy thing to check when Dan just happens to carry brand new spare with him. We got dumb after that and replaced the coil (no Dan didn't have a spare, but we had a part's bike right? I mean Jenn was riding a new 07 so we figured the parts had to be pretty good.).

3. If you're going on a trip and you've futzed with your bike, it's really a good idea to AT LEAST bring a wiring diagram. Cause if we'd had the diagram we would have figured it out a LOT quicker, I'm SURE of it.

Ya see, we replaced the CPS, we swapped in the ignition coil from Jenn's bike, we saw the battery dropping below 10 volts when cranking (Yes, I had a DVOM with me), so we swapped in the battery from my bike (at this point you gotta realize we had 3 dead bikes on the side of the road cause 2 were missing pieces). And at that point all we could think of was ECU...

we decided to talk about the circuit one more time (no diagram, so we were going on memory and the basics of how these things USUALLY work).

Battery cranks the starter, CPS gives a signal to the ECU telling it when to unground the coil, causing the field to collapse and inducing high voltage in the secondary circuit. But from where does the power come? I asked Dan, "is it from the ECU or ???" that's when the lights came on. It's from a RELAY he said.

Pop off the side cover, pull a relay.

TROUBLESHOOTING EFI TIP 101 - If you ever suspect a relay problem and your machine has more than one, swap em around and see if the trouble moves.

BIG TIME TIP

EFI Sportys have 2 relays (four-pin mini relays) ONE for the starter and ONE for the EFI system (controls power to the ECU and other components, so no relay no SPARK AND NO FUEL EITHER).

Honestly, after this weekend, ANOTHER BIG TIME TIP - IF YOU HAVE AN EFI SPORTY BUY AN EXTRA RELAY. You MIGHT not ever need it, but if you do, that $15 insurance policy will be worth it's weight in GOLD!!!!

And if you want the whole story of what led to thinking about these tips, go here

http://xlforum.net/forums/s...364#post873364
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 3rd September 2007
whittlebeast's Avatar
whittlebeast whittlebeast is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,992
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200 Low
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Other Motorcycle Model: Yamaha FZ1
Other Motorcycle Year: 2008
whittlebeast has disabled reputation
Default

Suck, Squeze, Bang, Blow, Suck, Squeze, Bang, Blow ..... and all at the right time.

AW
__________________
My new website is HowEFIworks dot com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 3rd September 2007
alleydude's Avatar
alleydude alleydude is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kingsley, MI
Posts: 1,194
Sportster/Buell Model: XLS Roadster Wannabe
Sportster/Buell Year: 1977
Sportster/Buell Model #2: HD (Aermacchi) Sprint
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1969
Reputation: 320
alleydude is on a distinguished roadalleydude is on a distinguished roadalleydude is on a distinguished roadalleydude is on a distinguished road
Default

Your tips apply to Ironheads as well. I was having starter problems. Click click click... No whir whir vrooommmm...

Sounded like the solenoid was kicking in but not getting anything to the starter. So I pulled the battery, battery box, rear exhaust, oil tank and got the the solenoid. Pulled it out, took it apart, cleaned the contacts, put it back together, re-installed it in the bike (ignoring the rubber boot for the moment), replaced the oil tank, battery box, battery... click click click (damn!).

Okay, so I had this extra solenoid on this '72 I have the top end ripped out of, so I pulled the battery box nd oil tank out of that (all other parts have already been removed) and snag the solenoid out.

Again back to ripping the guts out of my '77 to get to the solenoid, do the swap, replace the guts, and.... click click click (DAMMIT!)

Swap the starter relay with the '72's... click click click (CURSES!)

So, I decide that it HAS to be the starter. At least I saved the hard one for last, right. Remove the battery, battery box and oil tank again and swap the starter with that of the '72. Put everything back together.... click click click.

After pulling my wrench out of the drywall in my basement, I decided that my battery was getting low because of all the testing, so I stuck it on my slow charger and called it a night.

The next morning I went to pull the battery off the charger and noticed it was not yet fully charged, and there was some battery acid leaking out of the caps on top. So deciding that suicide was not yet an option, I would get a new battery and see if that could have been a problem. The '72's battery was junk, couldn't use that. I took the bike out of my basement and hooked up some jumper cables to the bike and my truck, and what'cha know, turned right over.

It was the DAMN battery! Two freakin' days of trouble shooting and hair pulling and it was the freakin' battery.

So yeh, start with the easy stuff first. Stupid.
__________________
I'm a man, but I can change... if I have to, I guess...
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
(When all else fails, play dead)

Ken
HDSprint.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 3rd September 2007
Moved On / My Own Choice Moved On / My Own Choice is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,120
Moved On / My Own Choice has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alleydude View Post
Your tips apply to Ironheads as well. I was having starter problems. Click click click... No whir whir vrooommmm...

<snipped the yeah, been there and done that>

So yeh, start with the easy stuff first. Stupid.
Oh yeah, I feel your pain. I've done that. I imagine most of us mear mortals who work on our stuff have all done it at some point or another.

Hopefully others learn from our mistakes though.

Cause I sure as shyte don't seem to learn from mine sometimes.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 3rd September 2007
alsipd alsipd is offline
Know It All
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Official resident of North Carolina
Posts: 184
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Reputation: 279
alsipd is on a distinguished roadalsipd is on a distinguished roadalsipd is on a distinguished road
Default

KevM

Great troubleshooting tips. I bet you are a great wrench. Thanks for passing along the knowledge; Not everyone would do that!!!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 3rd September 2007
Gold951's Avatar
Gold951 Gold951 is offline
Flat Track Champion
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 666
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 2003
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1977
Other Motorcycle Model: Yamaha Virago XV 700
Other Motorcycle Year: 1987
Reputation: 47476
Gold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to beholdGold951 is a splendid one to behold
Default

Kev:

That's a story right out of my Porsche background. The Porsche EFI uses the same technique to supply power to the fuel pump and the EFI box. I carry a spare relay in the golve box.
__________________
Cliff Hipsher
'86 Porsche 951 Kalahari Metallic
'03 883 XLH
ICC USN (Ret.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 3rd September 2007
racerwill's Avatar
racerwill racerwill is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: pit road.....
Posts: 6,380
Sportster/Buell Model: XLRR
Sportster/Buell Year: 91
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH1100
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 80
Reputation: 289392
racerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond reputeracerwill has a reputation beyond repute
Cool he just takes tips.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev M View Post
3 hours on the side of the NJ Tpke this weekend reminded me of some things.



The problem is we (and that includes me) too often jump to conclusions.

Always remember, and never forget, the BASICS when troubleshooting.


1. Be logical - don't shot gun it. Check for Compression, Spark and Fuel and don't leave ANY of those steps to ASSumptions, cause ASSumptions can be wrong.


2. Check the SIMPLE things first.
3. If you're going on a trip and you've futzed with your bike, it's really a good idea to AT LEAST bring a wiring diagram.

we decided to talk about the circuit one more time (no diagram, so we were going on memory and the basics of how these things USUALLY work).



TROUBLESHOOTING EFI TIP 101 - If you ever suspect a relay problem and your machine has more than one, swap em around and see if the trouble moves.

BIG TIME TIP

EFI Sportys have 2 relays (four-pin mini relays) ONE for the starter and ONE for the EFI system (controls power to the ECU and other components, so no relay no SPARK AND NO FUEL EITHER).

Honestly, after this weekend, ANOTHER BIG TIME TIP - IF YOU HAVE AN EFI SPORTY BUY AN EXTRA RELAY.
And if you want the whole story of what led to thinking about these tips, go here

http://xlforum.net/forums/s...364#post873364

ya know Kev.... you're a pretty smart guy.......even if ya do ride a spagetti rocket

Ww
__________________
master wizard
Super Moderator
RIP Mr Jimi

Blue Locktite..... I put that sh*t on everything.....

"never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence"

"All The Way"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4th September 2007
Moved On / My Own Choice Moved On / My Own Choice is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,120
Moved On / My Own Choice has disabled reputation
Default

thanks guys... I get by with a wrench, but I've met too many guys who have forgotten more than I'll ever know to consider myself good.... not that I'm gonna stop trying.

Actually, I was stuck on the side of the road with two decent wrenches... Dan knows his stuff too, and Joe (HawkMech) is good with mechanical, and I betcha he's awesome with hydraulics, but he doesn't like electricity.

He we all have achilles heels.

Anyway, Spaghetti Rocket... lol...

Kev
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd October 2007
M-16pilot's Avatar
M-16pilot M-16pilot is offline
Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 119
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200N orng/blk
Sportster/Buell Year: 2008
Other Motorcycle Model: FLSTF Fatboy
Other Motorcycle Year: 2008
Reputation: 107
M-16pilot is on a distinguished roadM-16pilot is on a distinguished road
Default

Kev, Would you happen to have the part # for the relay handy. I always like to go to the stealer prepared.

Tim
__________________
2008 HD XL1200N orange/black

2008 FLSTF Fatboy candy red sunglow

Why wait, Impeach him now
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #10  
Old 3rd October 2007
ColinB ColinB is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,745
Sportster/Buell Model: 883R
Sportster/Buell Year: 2007
Reputation: 1721574
ColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond reputeColinB has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-16pilot View Post
Kev, Would you happen to have the part # for the relay handy. I always like to go to the stealer prepared.

Tim
Hi, although I'm not Kev (phew!) I followed his advice and got myself a spare relay - mine was already corroding up after 4 months of a wet summer over here.

The number is 31601-04 Relay, SPST, Sealed (or so it sez on the pack)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC