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Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions Advice, questions, and tips for 1200, 1250, 1340, 1450 etc... for Sportster and Buell motorcycle engine conversions

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  #1031  
Old 10th February 2017
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rocketmangb rocketmangb is offline
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I've said it before.
"Big power builds aint for pussies" !
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  #1032  
Old 10th February 2017
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
A 4 liter V8 eater A 4 liter V8 eater is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
These big builds tend to be very custom in nature. That's why you don't see pre-configured packages for them on our web site. They're not a bolt-on kit that a guy can install in his garage on a Saturday afternoon without checking anything. That's the 1250 kit. These are a different animal, especially one at this level.

Many, many shops would therefore dismiss a clearance item like this, and proclaim that it's on the engine builder to check that. And they have a point. However, we try really, really hard to put people into combinations of parts that fit together and work with as little fitting and filing as possible. Even combinations that really push the limits, like this one. We just missed a little bit here.

It's really a very, very minor deal in the grand scheme of things. I can't even begin to tell you how many of my race motors I've opened up and found witness marks on valve pockets. If you're not getting those sometimes, you're not pushing things hard enough. We used to joke that it "helps the valves close". Seriously, if you're going to play at this level, it comes with the territory. Don't try to do a build at this level unless you're willing to deal the little things that might come up from pushing things so hard. Mat has been great, he understands completely. This is piddly.
Aaron, are the pistons at this level off the shelf at Hammer, or custom from CP?

I figure once the "formula" reaches a point where it seems everything is harmoniously working together and making big power, why couldn't a pre-configured package be made available? Isn't that sorta what the sledge heads+660 cams+90"+reverse dome was for awhile prior to the "BFH heads"?

I remember the valve pocket grinding I had to do on the original set of 88" reverse dome big bore pistons. Back then that was also a brand new setup like what Mat has now. The grinding was all at the edge of the pocket near the cylinder wall, and the depth was fine. That was with 2" intake valves. Later when I went to 90" the clearance on the pistons and 1.98" intake valves was fine out of the box. I figured refinements had been made.

Anyways, I hope to step up to BFH heads one of these days.
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  #1033  
Old 11th February 2017
MatHormell's Avatar
MatHormell MatHormell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
What you have to understand is that this whole area is right where things get pushed in the quest for power. Overlap is a key ingredient to making power. But overlap pushes both piston-to-valve and valve-to-valve clearance. So there's a trade-off with valve sizes. You can sink the valves to get more clearance, but that causes a trade-off in compression. If you've got a big bore, that gives you more room for bigger valves, but you have to alter the valve angles to take advantage of it. You can do things in the piston design to give you more clearance there, but that has it's own set of trade-offs, for example you need to maintain enough strength in the floor of the pocket because it can get to thin between the pocket and the ring groove. You can move the ring pack down, but that has trade-offs too. Likewise, milling heads for more compression has trade-offs.

This is what it's all about. There are tons of trade-offs everywhere. How hard you push it, and how you choose to make those trade-offs, has everything to do with your final result.

Well, Mat's build pushes all these things. We're trying to thread a needle here, getting as much overlap and as much valve as we can into the motor, because a big motor needs all it can get. We missed on the valve pocket placement by a gnat's ass. We were trying to keep a thick floor.

These big builds tend to be very custom in nature. That's why you don't see pre-configured packages for them on our web site. They're not a bolt-on kit that a guy can install in his garage on a Saturday afternoon without checking anything. That's the 1250 kit. These are a different animal, especially one at this level.

Many, many shops would therefore dismiss a clearance item like this, and proclaim that it's on the engine builder to check that. And they have a point. However, we try really, really hard to put people into combinations of parts that fit together and work with as little fitting and filing as possible. Even combinations that really push the limits, like this one. We just missed a little bit here.

It's really a very, very minor deal in the grand scheme of things. I can't even begin to tell you how many of my race motors I've opened up and found witness marks on valve pockets. If you're not getting those sometimes, you're not pushing things hard enough. We used to joke that it "helps the valves close". Seriously, if you're going to play at this level, it comes with the territory. Don't try to do a build at this level unless you're willing to deal the little things that might come up from pushing things so hard. Mat has been great, he understands completely. This is piddly.

Was hoping you would chime in with useful information haha, Thanks Aaron!
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  #1034  
Old 13th February 2017
jkinkade jkinkade is offline
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Hi Matt did you use 883 heads or 1200 heads?
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  #1035  
Old 13th February 2017
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MatHormell MatHormell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkinkade View Post
Hi Matt did you use 883 heads or 1200 heads?
Heads started off as 07 Screamin eagle 1200 heads for carb'd version..
Here's a before and after pic



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  #1036  
Old 13th February 2017
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Guess I can give an update while I'm here. Got the front rotors installed.. Not the best looking ones but will get me rolling for now until I can afford some nice waved ones.. Took the measurements for the front wheel spacer needed.
Also modified a ducati rear brake bracket..worked well for mock up but will not function properly due to bends in the mount throwing it off. So I gave the bracket to my Machinist friend along with the specs for the front wheel spacer.. So he's going to make the pieces for me this week and then I can mount up the rear wheel and measure for those spacers.. Things are coming together.





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  #1037  
Old 13th February 2017
jkinkade jkinkade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatHormell View Post
Heads started off as 07 Screamin eagle 1200 heads for carb'd version..
Here's a before and after pic



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I like that style chamber Matt!! Used a chamber like that on my carb TC88 flowed really well.
I thought you might have used 883 the valves are on a different angle with 883 heads than the late 1200, so valve releif needs cutting at different angles i like 1200 better. Hope you get it going soon so you can get to the track!!
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  #1038  
Old 14th February 2017
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MatHormell MatHormell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkinkade View Post
I like that style chamber Matt!! Used a chamber like that on my carb TC88 flowed really well.
I thought you might have used 883 the valves are on a different angle with 883 heads than the late 1200, so valve releif needs cutting at different angles i like 1200 better. Hope you get it going soon so you can get to the track!!
With the level of work I had done, either head can be used as a starting point, it's all changed

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Last edited by MatHormell; 14th February 2017 at 04:22..
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  #1039  
Old 15th February 2017
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So got some bad news today . Looks like my axtells were damaged on the spiggots during shipping.. Not sure how as I wrapped them like crazy and 2nd day aired them.. But we are talking ups so really not surprised, but screwed none the less.. Definitely not in the position to fork out more $$$ right now while trying to buy a house.. So I'm thinking I'm gonna sell my progressive 970 shocks to. Cover this.. If anyone's interested I'd like $800 for them.. They have maybe 100 miles tops on them and retail for $1200.. All black in 14" if anyone is interested


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Last edited by MatHormell; 16th February 2017 at 03:57..
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  #1040  
Old 15th February 2017
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Were the parts insured?
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