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  #21  
Old 7th September 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
You should start with a huge main jet. You could leave the main jet on the bench and still tune the low to mid range. If you start with a main jet that is too small, you will choke off your ability to tune the low end and mid range. It will give you nothing but false readings and frustration.

The main jet is mostly a top end limiter, so at this stage, don't limit yourself. Once the mid range on down is good, then test the main jet and lower it in size a bit.

I learned this from years of dirt bike repair. There were a few times when someone complained that the top end was flat, and the rest was great. I found the main jet sitting in the bottom of the float bowl on those occasions. They vibrated out, and the only effect was the top end sucked. George tested me on this and removed his main jet then took a ride around San Bernardino. He found that the bike was fine up to about 80 MPH, then it fell flat on it's face. If he had just stayed below 80, he could still be riding it that way today.

On a 1250 kit with 30 degree squish, I worked on a bike that had a 165 main in it. We worked on the mid range and the symptoms were strange. The bike just fell flat at about 4500 RPM (felt like rich actually). Then once I saw what the main jet was we bumped it way up to a 190 I think. That woke the beast up fast quick and in a hurry. It caught me by surprise and I almost missed the driveway.
Seems that was Richards CV with the bogus needle ?
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  #22  
Old 7th September 2019
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I have a Lectron 40mm, plenty big for the curtain of any valve up to two inches with a lift like of my 536 cams. What do you need is more important than how big it is. My bike behave like I like. The HSR 42 have an hole big enough for an 90 inches with impact XB heads for streets fun, on the drag strip or on a dyno, you will gain just about 10 hp going to 45 or 15 with a 48. The gain at the upper is always a lost at the lower rpm. The size of the valve plus the lift give you your curtain; your impact with the 536 give you a nice lower rpm torque monster like stated before. It's your money and think about your need first before any (I want to spend your money) advice.
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  #23  
Old 7th September 2019
t120r t120r is offline
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I think i will be sticking with the HSR42. Once i get it dialed in with my AFR gauge, I'll put it on a dyno to see what's happening. If at that time i need a HSR45, then I'll go for one.
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  #24  
Old 7th September 2019
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Might look into a "Y8" needle jet
Seems like we end up using those most of the time.
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  #25  
Old 7th September 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketmangb View Post
Seems that was Richards CV with the bogus needle ?
Yes, it did have a bad needle (fat at tip as I remember), and that was what turned my focus away from the main jet. After changing needle (I think we got the new needle from you, is that the day you drove over to bring us parts?) and adjusting as best we could, the bike still fell flat on it's face at around 4500. That was a head scratcher because we all thought it was the needle. That's when I threw a (190?) in it. It was like a shot of nitrous. I ran the bike down two exits, then hit the freeway for the ride back. Went two more exits past mine, and played with roll off on the way back down the surface street (Philadelphia St.). It was about perfect, and when I got to the shop, I almost overshot the driveway because (like a race horse), it wanted to keep running.

I know we tried different jets after that, but I think we stayed with the 190. Richard may have it written down.

For those who don't know, George is a lifesaver around here. He likes to keep parts on the shelf just in case. That has saved my ass on a few occasions when Harley was closed, or out of stock. He had a CKP when Dong (another forum member) sumped and the heat melted the CKP out of the Mule on his way to Vegas. That could have ruined his entire trip, because; it was on a Monday. I thought of George while trailering Dong back, and we were only a couple of exits from the freeway that took us over to his place. Pouring rain in sunny southern California that day too. Bottom line, Dong was back riding in the rain to Vegas in just a couple of hours including bringing him back from Victorville and going to a car wash to spray all the oil off the bike. Thank you George!
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  #26  
Old 8th September 2019
t120r t120r is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketmangb View Post
Might look into a "Y8" needle jet
Seems like we end up using those most of the time.
I still have to do my 50 mile breakin run, so I'm sure I'll see what the wideband says to me. But everywhere i read people are going with that needle, so i may order one up. Matching it to a pilot jet on my 90incher might be a bit more fun though.
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  #27  
Old 8th September 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t120r View Post
I still have to do my 50 mile breakin run, so I'm sure I'll see what the wideband says to me. But everywhere i read people are going with that needle, so i may order one up. Matching it to a pilot jet on my 90incher might be a bit more fun though.
The y8 isn't a needle. It's a needle jet. It makes for finer tuning than just changing the needle or clip position.
For instance, take the difference between a 97 needle and the richer 96 needle. Changing the needle jet from a y6 to a y8 and leaving the 97(leaner needle) would give you roughly a 96.5 needle and it also effects the needle height in the same manner. Say having the clip on the 2nd groove is a bit lean on acceleration but the middle groove a bit rich. Replacing the y6 needle jet with a y8 and leaving the clip on the 2nd groove in effect gives the same result as clip position 2.5 with the y6 needle jet which of course there isn't.
With the pilot blending into the needle, it's usually better to go as lean as possible on the pilot and go with the richer needle to get the desired cruise AFR and a better transition. You can make 2 or 3 different pilots work at idle by adjusting the air screw.
I'm currently using a 25 pilot which is the middle of 3 I could make work at idle. My screw is 2 turns out. If I used a 27.5 I would end up more like 2 1/2 - 2 3/4 turns out and a 22.5 I would be more like 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 turns out.
If that makes sense.
I used the y8 needle jet in my build with the 25 pilot and 97 needle in the 2nd groove. When the weather was hot I liked what it did in respect to the needle position but it made my cruise too rich. I went back to the y6 needle jet and raised the 97 needle to the middle groove. In the cooler weather(70ish now) that works good.
When the temps are in the 90s again it would be better to drop my pilot to a 22.5, put the y8 needle jet back in and drop the 97 needle back to the 2nd groove.
What you don't want to do tho is try making a leaner main work by using a richer needle or needle position.
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  #28  
Old 8th September 2019
t120r t120r is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60Gunner View Post
The y8 isn't a needle. It's a needle jet. It makes for finer tuning than just changing the needle or clip position.
For instance, take the difference between a 97 needle and the richer 96 needle. Changing the needle jet from a y6 to a y8 and leaving the 97(leaner needle) would give you roughly a 96.5 needle and it also effects the needle height in the same manner. Say having the clip on the 2nd groove is a bit lean on acceleration but the middle groove a bit rich. Replacing the y6 needle jet with a y8 and leaving the clip on the 2nd groove in effect gives the same result as clip position 2.5 with the y6 needle jet which of course there isn't.
With the pilot blending into the needle, it's usually better to go as lean as possible on the pilot and go with the richer needle to get the desired cruise AFR and a better transition. You can make 2 or 3 different pilots work at idle by adjusting the air screw.
I'm currently using a 25 pilot which is the middle of 3 I could make work at idle. My screw is 2 turns out. If I used a 27.5 I would end up more like 2 1/2 - 2 3/4 turns out and a 22.5 I would be more like 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 turns out.
If that makes sense.
I used the y8 needle jet in my build with the 25 pilot and 97 needle in the 2nd groove. When the weather was hot I liked what it did in respect to the needle position but it made my cruise too rich. I went back to the y6 needle jet and raised the 97 needle to the middle groove. In the cooler weather(70ish now) that works good.
When the temps are in the 90s again it would be better to drop my pilot to a 22.5, put the y8 needle jet back in and drop the 97 needle back to the 2nd groove.
What you don't want to do tho is try making a leaner main work by using a richer needle or needle position.
Ooops my mistake. I thought 'y8' referred to the 97 needle. Looking at my parts list, the pilot jets all have the number sequence: VM28/486-xx. There is a needle jet that has the number 784-430000-Y-6. Is this just replaced with Y-8 for the 'Y8' ?
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  #29  
Old 9th September 2019
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Originally Posted by t120r View Post
Ooops my mistake. I thought 'y8' referred to the 97 needle. Looking at my parts list, the pilot jets all have the number sequence: VM28/486-xx. There is a needle jet that has the number 784-430000-Y-6. Is this just replaced with Y-8 for the 'Y8' ?
Yep. The y6 is stock. Easy enough to change thru the drain plug. Just remove the main jet and holder and the needle jet just drops out.
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  #30  
Old 9th September 2019
t120r t120r is offline
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Seeing as i have a 96 needle right now, putting in the Y8 needle jet will make me richer correct?
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