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  #11  
Old 2nd March 2012
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ChIkInHaWk ChIkInHaWk is offline
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Thanks guys, and the Dynojet vision with an extra licence is still way cheaper than a thundermax. Will the Vision be able to cope with big changes like a 1250 upgrade?
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  #12  
Old 2nd March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChIkInHaWk View Post
Thanks guys, and the Dynojet vision with an extra licence is still way cheaper than a thundermax. Will the Vision be able to cope with big changes like a 1250 upgrade?
I can't see why not. Jamie @ Fuel Moto should be able to supply you with a map as a starting point. He can answer any questions you may have.
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  #13  
Old 2nd March 2012
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Just thought I'd add some pics of the two bikes in question.



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  #14  
Old 3rd March 2012
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Originally Posted by ChIkInHaWk View Post
2: I have a XL883N and have just finished the "break in" miles. I will be putting on pipes and SE stage one AC shortly. In the long run I will also be doing a 1250 conversion so I want my ECM "upgrade" option to bear this in mind, so here are my narrowed down options and I hope you can point me in the right direction... Good old Screamin Eagle super tuner, TTS Mastertune (which I have been told is better), or just a X14iED till I do the big bore upgrade where I add a thundermax?
X14IED basically tosses more fuel during closed loop operation by reporting to the ECM that it is running leaner than it is so the ECM dumps more fuel. To me, that is like saying my pants for my 3 tuxedo are 2 inches too long so I change the entire thing down 2 sizes. Might make my pants fit better length wise but might make everything a little too tight.

Whittlebeast is pretty big on the PowerVision. I'm not tuning my own bike so I'd opt for a full solution that controls everything. IIRC, TTS used to make it for HD under SERT and had some sort of dispute. I believe that HD only offers the SEPST as the solution. They have the street tuner but you can't change much on it.

I am in the same boat as you. I have the NRHS AC which I will install and the exhaust with is too much for me to install with a torn right rotator cuff so I am going to have to pay my neighbor a few bucks or a dealership to install. I can't lift my arm past the shoulder level without pain so I am not sure how I will work on that exhaust. Later on, I will put a 1250 kit on it. NFW would I ever use a fooler on that. Might as well buy it once and do it right. I'd get either the SEPST or the Powervision or maybe the TTS Mastertune and have it dyno tuned for the AC and 2:1 Bobcat. With that, the foundation is set for future mods like the 1250 kit with Stage II headwork and probably a SE 497 cam NRHS recommended. Why buy that fooler for the instant gratification? Might as well save up some money and do it right from the get go. My last lesson for that came from saving a few hundred on cheaper heads for my car that cost me an expensive short block.
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  #15  
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChIkInHaWk View Post
Thanks guys, and the Dynojet vision with an extra licence is still way cheaper than a thundermax. Will the Vision be able to cope with big changes like a 1250 upgrade?
The PowerVision actually REWRITES your ECM.

Let me explain a few things and help you understand how these things work. In your computer, you have a bunch of tables. These tables basically say "For X condition provide Y amount of fuel and Z amount of timing". When you increase your engine's displacement, you will need to increase fueling since you will be taking in a lot more air each cycle.

Your computer uses information from it's sensors to determin what X is and whether or not what it is telling the engine controls to do is right or not. In more detail, the comptuer takes Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) and compares that to RPM and the possition of the throttle (TP) to determin the load on engine and how much air is being sucked into the engine. This is X. It will then adjust the Injector Pulse Width (IPW) based upon data in the computer's Volumetric Effeciancy table (VE tables) to command how much fuel it determins is needed for that condition. It then looks at the O2 readings (which tell the computer what the Air/Fuel ratio actually is) and the computer compares this to it's tables to see if it got it right. If it's off, the computer with "trim" the fuel commands to adjust the AF ratio until the two numbers match.

There are three kinds of solutions to this problem. One is your Xieds. These just tweak the reading coming back from the O2 sensors so the computer thinks the engine is running leaner than it actually is and thus the computer "trims" to add more fuel.

The second is a Power Commander III/V style solution. This is a box that goes in between your ECM and the sensors. This box will adjust signals from the senors and those going back to the fuel injectors and ignition in order to get the bike to run how you want it to. I don't like these because if something goes wrong with them it's harder to troubleshoot and you may get stuck with a stock tune unexpectedly. Also, I have heard of people having problems with corrosion and failure of these kinds of "piggy back" systems.

The last solution is something like the PowerVision or TTS. These devices actually rewrite the tables in your ECM. This means your system isn't being "fooled" by anything and is working exactly how it was designed to work. I like the PowerVision because you can mount it on your bike, ride around, and log how the engine is running in real world conditions. You can then take this data and using their Autotune Basic feature, download it to your laptop and allow their software to look at your current tune, look at the data, and rewrite your current tune for you like a dyno tuner would.

Now, stock HDs use narrow band O2 sensors and these are what the AutoTune basic uses. Narrow band O2s are not very accurate unless the AF ratio is really close to 14.7 (hence why it's called a "narrow" band...it's only accurate for a really "narrow" range of AF ratio). The Autotune Pro that is available for the PowerVision includes Wide Band O2s (which is what dyno tuners use) that will let you get an even more accurate tune on your bike. The Power Vision even lets you run both Narrow and Wide band O2s at the same time (of course you have to modify your exhuast with 2 extra O2 bungs to install both O2s at the same time) to get the most accurate tune you possibly can.

So yes, the PowerVision will allow you to retune your engines for anything you do to them. I have one for my Dyna (the Sportie is carbed) and love it. You can even leave it mounted to your bike if you want an look at the data it's seeing from the ECM as you ride. Here you're seeing real time data for Engine Temp, MAP, Throttle Position (TP) in percentage, and RPM. Obviously the engine was off.



Great thing is, you can take it off your bike too and you don't lose the tune. Since you are rewritting the ECM, the changes you make stay on the ECM no matter what. This means you don't change the design of the engine management system as you would have to do with the other two solutions. This is why I HIGHLY recommend going with a system like this. You're allowing the ECM to do it's job the RIGHT way.
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  #16  
Old 6th March 2012
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If you do a 1250 kit, go into your tuner's engine setup and bump the displacement number... this will help get you close enough to be able to tune it out the rest of the way. You can alter your motor size and that will change the formula used for PW. Your VE numbers will look about the same once you retune if all you do is bigger pistons... if you change exhaust, ac or cams you will still be safe but you will see your VE changes where all your equipment works better and worse... You'll get it when you do it. Theres plenty of folks around here making power in many different ways.
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