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ironhead 1979, pinion gear

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  #1  
Old 29th January 2019
JSH JSH is offline
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Default Okay Ironhead fellers, here's one for you

I joined your ranks about a week ago and asked some questions about a 1979 XLH Cam chest I am working on. This bike went through the hands of several "ace" mechanics before I finally inherited what was left. I have now corrected what they did, but found the craziest things in the process. I have come to you all for help here, but I am betting none of you can solve this one. Please prove me wrong.
After someone melted the electrical system and had leftover parts after assembling the cam chest, I reorganized the parts, ordered some fresh shims, and assembled it. When all was finished and I went to install the distributor breaker points plate, I found that it's narrow front cylinder cam lobe ended up approximately 40 degrees off (anticlockwise, advanced). 180 I could understand (yes, the centrifugal weight set, springs and distributor cam are in correctly), but not 40 degrees. I checked everything I know to check, and redid the thing several times, always with the same result.
After pondering this for a couple of days, I came to the conclusion the problem absolutely had to be that, A. the pinion gear had spun on the shaft, or B. someone installed it wrong once upon a time, or C. someone was sneaking into the shop late at night and messing with me, or D. I am stupid.
I had been guaranteed that no one around here had ever removed the pinion nut or gear, and that the bike had been running okay before the previous owner left it. I am not sure what to believe there, but I have heard it run in the past. So, that seemed to negate the possibility of a wrongly installed pinion gear. Nevertheless, I couldn't think of any other possible cause for the thing not timing correctly. So, I pulled the pinion gear.
What I found was not what I expected. I assumed a tapered or four spline shaft, with garring from a sheared woodruff key, and the gear twisted around into the wrong position. Instead, I found a SIX SPLINE shaft that does not use a woodruff key, and the pinion gear installed very nicely two teeth (about 100 degrees) clockwise from where the shaft timing mark is. I also learned that the owner said it had been running terribly when he brought it here.
The flywheels appear to be stock ones, and the cams standard. But, this pinion shaft is not. Both the oiler worm gear and pinion gear have six teeth, both sliding successively onto the splines, then are retained by an eared washer and a right-hand threaded nut. This poses no problem, but when the whole unit is timed and assembled, the breaker plate ends up 180 out, timed for the rear cylinder at precisely TDC.
Also, and this is my biggest problem now, there is no hole or timing mark on the oil pump gear whatsoever. The bottom half of the assembly supporting the gear is completely separate from it, the gear sitting atop it and spinning.
So how do I time the oil breather with no reference marks? How do I determine where this pinion shaft came from and who made it? (I think it may be S&S, but I spoke to them and they can't ID it.) And does a 1979 XLH get timed off the rear cylinder at exactly TDC? I could ask more, but definite answers to these questions would help immensely.
I sure will be anxious to see what y'all come up with. Pictures to follow...
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  #2  
Old 29th January 2019
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Pics would be very helpful I think.

Does this help?
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...sitions&page=3
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  #3  
Old 29th January 2019
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Reference above link: When it comes to ironheads Dr. Dick knows more than anyone on the planet.
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Old 29th January 2019
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the four spline pinion shaft is correct for '76 and earlier, for '77 up the six spline is correct. i'm not surprised by the incorrect installation of the pinion gear. there is no mark for the oil pump worm gear nor any breather timing for '77 up, where ever the gears line up is just fine. as for the ignition timing be sure that you are using the correct mark for front cylinder advance and also be sure you are on the front cylinder compression stroke. next thing to make sure of is that once those items are done, you are physically turning the points cam to advance the advance unit 40º. were you already doing that? sorry if i missed it, but just wanted to leave no room for doubt...
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  #5  
Old 29th January 2019
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Why would you decide to start a new thread?
All the info you needed was in your previous thread...

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072181
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  #6  
Old 29th January 2019
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Default Thank you, but...

The link you posted did help, however some important things are left unanswered, such as:

Does this Sporty time off the rear cylinder at TDC? and,

How do you time this oil pump gear with no hole to line up and no marks anywhere?

If you fellers can answer these two questions, I can get this old bike to run.
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  #7  
Old 29th January 2019
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See post 4, that's the info you asked for.

Or, this post from your last thread:

http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.p...11&postcount=5
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  #8  
Old 29th January 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
The link you posted did help, however some important things are left unanswered, such as:

Does this Sporty time off the rear cylinder at TDC? ( No.)

How do you time this oil pump gear with no hole to line up and no marks anywhere? ( You don't.)

If you fellers can answer these two questions, I can get this old bike to run.
Buy a factory service manual.
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  #9  
Old 29th January 2019
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A 79 does not need the oil pump timed.

Spark Time a 79 just like any other, off the front cylinder.

Cam timing is NOT DONE AT TDC line up the cam marks only.

You should post a picture of what you are working on, it may not be a 79.

What manual are you reading?

I hope you did not use any thin shims on the cams.
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  #10  
Old 29th January 2019
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super plus 1 mr. rick!
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