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  #101  
Old 14th September 2018
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jammantoo jammantoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post




Purse, Couch, Scare your neighbors?!?

Hopefully more often than not the adults in the room don't give a shit about those juvenile things.

"Rugged individualism where the minimum is enough"

Yeah, whatever, go grocery shopping on a chopper some day and get back to me.

Ya know why baggers sell? Largely they sell to guys who ACTUALLY RIDE... who ride every day, who carry things to and fro work or a store or a gym, or who tour for weeks or months or who take their wife, girlfriend, partner along etc.

Yeah some pose with em just like many do with any other kind of bike.

But the touring platform sold because it's a great platform (if a bit big these days). And Harley was smart to ride that trend (or drive that trend) to the bottom line being their most profitable models.

Go back to the beginning of this thread -THOSE are the bike they never castrated.
First Bone, I know the touring platform is a great platform, I was giving a viewpoint I hear all the time from the younger kids, they consider the Bagger an old mans bike that hang around at bars pretending to ride. Kids want to be kids, and it drives a lot of bike sales. You do not buy a Superduke to go touring, or a MT07 to go racing, they are bought as Hooligan bikes, a huge part of the new market, as is adventure bikes, And HD is answering to these trends.
Now as log as we look at the kids and ask them why they do not ride a real bike, while sitting on our baggers with more years on them than miles we will alienate young riders. It is not HD doing this, it is HD riders and Dealers.
That is the kids viewpoint of HD, because they get it from us all the time.
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  #102  
Old 15th September 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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Quote:
I feel that HD is going in that direction with the Street Fighter line. Yamaha has huge presence in this line with the MT07 and MT09,
The street fighter does look remarkably like the MT01. If HD can make of go of it good but I suspect their prices will limit sales outside their traditional markets
to younger customers, where there are established market leaders, strong competition and brand image. Yamaha sold about 5.4million motor cycles in 2017.
Obviously, they compete in every sector not just super sport bikes. I was making the point that race results sell an image and hence bikes. Around the time I
was in Indonesia a couple of years ago they had Rossi promoting their 125s. There are probably as many 125s and step throughs as people over there. Great place!
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  #103  
Old 13th October 2018
farmall farmall is offline
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Quote:
Now as log as we look at the kids and ask them why they do not ride a real bike, while sitting on our baggers with more years on them than miles we will alienate young riders. It is not HD doing this, it is HD riders and Dealers.
That "real bike" meme was always despicably stupid and most often spouted by non-mechanics who not being mechanics don't know FA anyway. E

I never got why doddering gummers who hauled azz in their youth now buy the heaviest motorcycles they can find then leave them PARKED because in the real world they are a hassle compared to something lighter and more agile. I'm old but the FXR which served me in youth serves me nicely today, and I can pick it up if I must without getting a second hernia. I work on enough customer baggers to dislike them, especially those festooned with more chrome junk than a Manila Jeepney. I have trucks to carry groceries.

HD riders are their worst advertisement. Young men don't admire some old fat slob wearing shorts and Crocs who didn't build what he rides. i don't blame them a bit.

Baggers work fine but most owners do NOT run high miles. That's reality. Ask any mechanic, dealer or independent. Those who do run high miles should not think that's the norm. The other customers are why you have baggers to buy!

Harley needs an updated Sportster NOT molested by greedy bean counters who think INA cam bearings and parent metal bearings and tappet bores are cool. They've done enough damage to HDs reputation.It doesn't require OHC because short pushrods are controllable and make top end jobs (and modification, the best reason to own a HD) easy. Sportster is right side drive (which big twins should be, their legacy layout is absurd for maintenance) which along with the belt is well worth keeping. Maybe Scout will pressure HD to put some sport back in Sportster. And please no chain cam drives or excuses for them. Four cam Sporties meet noise emissions regs nullifying any contention chains are necessary. (Alan Sputhe proved four cam big twins work fine too.)
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  #104  
Old 14th October 2018
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Some good points farm, though starting to get off the track. My original point was how they'd castrated their bikes in terms of cornering clearance.

I'm happy to say that they seem to be starting to pay attention to cornering and braking, and that's encouraging.
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  #105  
Old 14th October 2018
SonWon SonWon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmall View Post
<snip>

Harley needs an updated Sportster NOT molested by greedy bean counters who think INA cam bearings and parent metal bearings and tappet bores are cool. They've done enough damage to HDs reputation.It doesn't require OHC because short pushrods are controllable and make top end jobs (and modification, the best reason to own a HD) easy. Sportster is right side drive (which big twins should be, their legacy layout is absurd for maintenance) which along with the belt is well worth keeping. Maybe Scout will pressure HD to put some sport back in Sportster. And please no chain cam drives or excuses for them. Four cam Sporties meet noise emissions regs nullifying any contention chains are necessary. (Alan Sputhe proved four cam big twins work fine too.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Some good points farm, though starting to get off the track. My original point was how they'd castrated their bikes in terms of cornering clearance.

I'm happy to say that they seem to be starting to pay attention to cornering and braking, and that's encouraging.
I too would like to see an updated Sportster with the ability to tour. I don't want a bigger bike. I have a mental list of easy improvements Harley could make to the Sportster, including suspension. They could market the reliability of the bike and low owner maintenance cost over the other choices. My Sportster doesn't have to be the fastest.
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  #106  
Old 27th October 2018
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They won't press reliability because they sell two-wheeled fashion accessories and their customers for new bikes are (like most people) rarely mechanics. HD cheapens engine construction everywhere it can and it's obvious. They don't mandate Honda quality levels. It's as if they resent quality. HD made that mistake before....

Sportster suspension geometry was fine for the 1950s but it's awful today. The replacement should have a proper monoshock.

Rubber mounts worked, but they add bulk and weight. A new engine should not require that sort of mechanical bandaid. It certainly should not have vertically split crankcases. Horizontal split lets you work on top end and transmission separately.

Ducati etc proved steel tube frames work fine on sport bikes. Keeping that but doing it better would pay off for the custom/folk art (choppers are folk art) market and keep repairs easy.
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  #107  
Old 27th October 2018
1HD4CJM1X4K 1HD4CJM1X4K is offline
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In the end, to each his own.
On a 24 hour iron butt what would you prefer?
One liter, cornering crotch rocket?
Or one of the Gliders?

Can someone build a better Harley?
The new 2019 Goldwing is a feeble attempt.
Small gas tank, small luggage capacity, automatic transmission, with unmatched cornering ability.

The 2004 883c sportster is the cream of the crop (With a sundowner seat, and a windshield)

This bridges the gap.
Ride the back roads for two hours get gas and explore the surroundings. Ride the back roads for two hours, get gas and explore the surroundings. Either set up camp, rent a room, or hit the interstate and head home.

Fun, adventure, relaxing.

Sport bike? Not so much..

I see Harley tattoo's all the time.
I have yet to see a Yamaha Tattoo.
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  #108  
Old 27th October 2018
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Originally Posted by 1HD4CJM1X4K View Post
In the end, to each his own.
On a 24 hour iron butt what would you prefer?
One liter, cornering crotch rocket?
Or one of the Gliders?

Can someone build a better Harley?
The new 2019 Goldwing is a feeble attempt.
Small gas tank, small luggage capacity, automatic transmission, with unmatched cornering ability.

The 2004 883c sportster is the cream of the crop (With a sundowner seat, and a windshield)

This bridges the gap.
Ride the back roads for two hours get gas and explore the surroundings. Ride the back roads for two hours, get gas and explore the surroundings. Either set up camp, rent a room, or hit the interstate and head home.

Fun, adventure, relaxing.

Sport bike? Not so much..

I see Harley tattoo's all the time.
I have yet to see a Yamaha Tattoo.
If a Wing can out handle half the current Harley line, then Harley is doing something wrong.

If current Harley baggers have more cornering clearance than the current Sportsters, Harley is doing something wrong.

I've seen Ducati and Guzzi tattoos.
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  #109  
Old 31st October 2018
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Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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according to my Country's specialized magazines XLs are about to be retired in a few years...
I hope Mo.Co. had planned for them a revolution like that occurred with BTs... but we know it is unlikely...

maybe in US they will survive for some years... since EPAs for the moment seems to be more permissive than EUROs...
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