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  #11  
Old 8th October 2018
DYLAN DYLAN is offline
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Sorry IX2RELAX but I did'nt have time as the car took priority. But the day before I took the battery to a place that only sells batterys and he checked it over and told me it is a good battery. Having said that I will do the tests tomorrow evening and post my results. Thanks for the replys, DYLAN.
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  #12  
Old 8th October 2018
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If jumping direct to the solenoid control terminal starts the bike the problem is upstream.

Voltage ain't amperage. You could have a good voltage reading with only one strand of wire but not pass enough amps to the solenoid windings.

No matter what you do to the upstream wiring, reasons do NOT exist not to fit a pushbutton noid cover because even new components and new wiring can malfunction in the future. The stock setup is perfectly reasonable but backup is always better than no backup.

This page shows a slightly fancier version than what we used to do, which is drill the cover and carry a round shank screwdriver. http://www.drummerdonnie.com/solenoidHelper.html

I drill my old covers and stash them to give away if a bro who failed to install a pushbutton cover breaks down and needs one. That's all a stock cover is good for.
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  #13  
Old 11th October 2018
DYLAN DYLAN is offline
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Farmall I am seriously impressed by your innovation and will definately look at doing your noid cover trick. My problem is I'm 63, Im a joiner and get up at 5.45am, leave for work at 7.00, leave work around 4.15 at get home about 5.30. By this time I'm bolloxed and don't look forward to starting again in the shed. But I will persevere till I solve this problem. Cheers, DYLAN.
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  #14  
Old 15th October 2018
farmall farmall is offline
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'Twas not my innovation but I appreciate good ideas anywhere I find them and make an effort to share with others.

I totally understand being tired after work. I'm 59 and no spring chicken. If you order a cover they take about ten minutes to install and permit ya to work on the control circuit at leisure. If contacts look crispy you can attend to that another day. The one I bought recently was $14.89 with free shipping so don't pay too much.

Since you may not feel like doing a bunch of searching this may help. The info is fresh in my mind because I just assembled one starter of a bad Sporty starter and a free customer takeoff big twin starter. Shops in the US can't compete in man hours with new standard starters and the gaskets and labor to do it twice if you have a comeback is the main reason for replacing complete starters. I have "cash register eyes" and none of these parts listed are high.

Image search:
Pyramid Push Button Starter Solenoid Cover Harley Big Twins Evo TC #17758

They are widely available and both parts are cast, fit as they should, and not being stamped steel will pit more slowly over time. I have other covers including a nice Spyke (got off a used starter paid 15 bucks for or I wouldn't bother. Spyke are very nicely made but I wouldn't pay new price for one.) and any work well enough because there's nothing to screw up.

I don't care for the looks of the stock cover screws so I found the size (I believe it was on this forum) and bought a bag of stainless M4-0.7 x 12 stainless socket head screws via Ebay.

Stainless in quantity is often cheaper or very close to local hardware store prices plus I get to keep the extras as bench stock. I use divided plastic tackle boxes from Walmart for small hardware and electrical connector/parts stowage. https://www.flambeauoutdoors.com/FIs...s/Tuff-Tainers shows the style but the other containers they stock work well too. I place a sheet of typing paper under the lid to list contents. The time saving is more than worth it.

Some info on starter contact kits:
This is the comprehensive Standard Motor Products kit. It's listed for motorcycles but automobile kits with same shape contacts will work as well. Note all the hardware in the photo and the different contacts. Contacts vary by the position of the terminal holes in the starter which vary by the angle the engine designer places the starter. Other kits like this are available so you can play matchup using the photo. Your local auto starter rebuilder can get them easily if you need to go that route.

https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Moto.../dp/B0041CC0ME

Make sure the new contacts sit level and evenly when tightening the stud nuts. I hold 'em in place with my thumb and torque slowly. They need very little torque to stay put.

I prefer SIX point sockets for soft, shallow nuts and these sit in the plastic "cups" provided so you'll want all the engagement you can get. I ground the end flat to get rid of the chamfer (which is a manufacturing aid not necessary to using a socket, it locates the broach which cuts the internal flats) for better engagement but that's not strictly necessary.

Of course all Denso parts are metric but 9/16" gets nearly all 14mm fasteners and 1/2" gets 13mm. That covers typical connector stud nuts.

You want a tube of this stuff for many motorcycle and other electronic system uses. It's available at most auto stores. I coat my starter terminal threads to prevent corrosion and wipe a dab on the exposed parts after connecting battery cables. I also use it inside connector plugs and blade or bullet electrical connectorswhich makes them MUCH easier to disconnect and keeps out moisture. It's the "spark plug grease" sold in small packets for application inside spark plug boots to prevent moisture and carbon tracking.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-2205.../dp/B000AL8VD2

If you choose to remove the starter to swap contacts (less fiddly but adds primary cover R&I and clutch adjustment etc) you'll need a primary cover gasket kit. James Gaskets 34955-75K is listed for your year. Google the part number for best prices. The Cometic kit is fine too but costs a bit more.


In a pinch (for example if you must wait a long time for parts to ship due to not living in CONUS), typical heavy gray gasket paper or similar cardboard (it's not a high heat location) can be traced using the cover as a template then cut to make a primary cover gasket. Annoying to do but cheap and quick, and you can always install a new one later.
If you've any O-rings to replace I like to caliper the old ones (or even better, new ones) so I can order much less expensive Viton or nitrile rings by the bag online. Your Harley engine O-rings will be SAE spec (not metric) so I measure and convert to fractions then play matchup online.

BTW you mention "testing" your relay. Testing proves they function mechanically and that the solenoid portion of the relay works. It does NOT test how many AMPS the relay will pass.
They are common Bosch style relays used in hundreds of millions of vehicles. You can take yours to an auto store and ask for a heavy duty 30A or larger relay. The pinout should be on the bottom of the relay (cast into the plastic) or marked on the side of the cap. If you pop the cap off your original relay you can observe the contacts with a magnifying glass and bright light. You'll see how they wear. I would replace your relay because it's old even if it works.

To see if it's the relay, you can jump the connection between the female which gets hot when your starter button is pressed and the starter control lead from the socket to starter at the socket with relay removed. With everything else working correctly your starter will function as designed. Simple jumper is a short piece of wire. Cool guy jumper is two male blade connectors and a pushbutton switch. I just use a piece of wire. If joy, it was the relay but I'd replace the relay anyway as previously noted.

If looking up parts via a wholesaler or auto store unfamiliar with motorcycles. the starter is a Denso OSGR Light Duty. Harley-specific parts are minimal. The output shaft, end housing (where it bolts to the engine) and clutch rotation direction are HD specific. That means you can swap them to an otherwise matching car starter. Other makers produce them since the patents have probably expired but that's the OEM. Japanese auto dealers may have parts in stock. You have more supply otions than with any other motorcycle starter design.

I hope I saved you some time. Don't forget to post what solved your problem to help the next person.
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  #15  
Old 15th October 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DYLAN View Post
..But as the battery gets slightly drained rather than spin the engine over slower it clicks. At this point I did a voltmeter test on the green trigger wire etc and I got 12.7 volts.
What is battery voltage when trying to crank?

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1896417
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  #16  
Old 20th October 2018
DYLAN DYLAN is offline
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Sorry for the late reply but I've decided to work on the bike a full day or 2 rather than a couple of hours after work. I live in manchester UK and its dark and dismal after work this time of year. My missus printed out all the info IXLrelay put up for me regarding the electrical system and wire gauges etc. The bike is far from standard and allthough I stripped it down and put my own stamp on it I wired it back up the same as it was before the strip down. It has run ok as is since the rebuild till now. Maybe the battery is fooling me so I have bought a new one to start with. Now I can do the checks in the printout and maybe rewire it using the correct gauge wire where needed. I will post my results. Thanx to everyone who has replied to my post.
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  #17  
Old 2 Weeks Ago
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OK, so I have just wrote out an indepth explanation as to why my reply is late etc etc. and to how I found the solution.Then got told to refresh the page and log in. I WAS logged in so I'm not doin that again. It was the solenoid.
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  #18  
Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Glad you found it.
Reputation points to you for the follow-through and reporting the solution.
You get ~1% of my points, so you jump from 10 to 46,272.

Not seeing many giving rep points anymore (little scale, top right corner), but it is a way of appreciating someone's contribution, etc.
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Glad you found the problem - Did you rebuild the solenoid? Replace the starter?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DYLAN View Post
I just wrote out an indepth explanation ... Then got told to refresh the page and log in.
Here's a tip for preparing long responses - Create it in notepad/word/etc - then copy & paste it to the forum message box... If something goes wrong, you still have it on the notepad page - once the forum takes it, then delete/close the notepad page...


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  #20  
Old 2 Weeks Ago
DYLAN DYLAN is offline
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Thanx guys, I had ruled out the solenoid because it had new copper contacts etc fitted last year but they were badly pitted. I cleaned them and it now turns over off the button. I will fit new ones.
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